DoubleDutchy

Because he considered himself to be above the law I guess.

Darth Dane

Because he considered himself to be above the law I guess.

Which he said that everyone is.

Save the cattle on a sunday. To tend the need of your children. Who doesn't break the sabbath to provide medicine for a sick man, would we wait to next day where he might be dead?

Good deeds are welcome on any day


It's like the judged him on what he didn't do(obey the law), and not what he did do.(healed the sick and so on)







DD - Love & Laughter

DoubleDutchy

Do you think that a court, (courts are supposed to maintain the law) should accept this as a valid defence?

Darth Dane

I think it would cause chaos. But Jesus accepted the sentence, he didn't call for the angels. He did exclusively good deeds, and accepted that those who are blind would crucify him for it.

If it weren't for religion, perhaps humans would be living under the rule of survival of the fittest....societies as we know them today may not have existed.






DD - Love & Laughter

Biff the unclean

Saturday, the Jewish sabbeth is Saturday. Sunday was the sabbeth for the Mithrians...you know the guys with the Magis...the guys who believed in baptism.
And are we forgetting from the Jesus myth that he went into the Holy Temple with a bull whip and beat the living shit out of honest vendors? Causing a riot and stopping the temples flow of income.

Darth Dane

Biff: I thought he just got angry...he physically abused the people, according to the bible?





DD - Love & Laughter

jfryejr

Darth Dane wrote: The Jews were given the law by Yaweh. Follow the law and live, disobey the law and be stoned. When Israelites disobeyed the law, look at what God did to them...sent them into exile, allowed foreigners to govern over them, etc. He was not a nice God.

You're taking your image of God today and applying it back then. The Jews feared God. How much fear do you have of God? He's your father, a buddy you talk to in prayer, someone you who will give you whatever you need?

The law is what separated the Jews from the Gentiles. It's what made them God's chosen people. Jesus just cast it aside. His basic outlook...I'm god's son, whatever I do is legal, whatever I say to do is legal, "you want a sign? Ha, only an evil generation asks for a sign, follow me or burn in hell for all eternity."

Jesus set himself up as god with no authority. If Jesus was actually performing all of these miracles exactly as the Bible stated them, with thousands of witnesses (think small populations, crowded/gossipy cities) wouldn't many, many more of the Jews have converted? He offered no real proof that he was who he said he was. He flat out said, "In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." He was talking to the High Priest. There's no record of the son of man coming on a cloud of glory in the high priest's lifetime. He spoke to his disciples and said (something like--I don't have a bible here), "surely, there are those among you who will not taste death before the son of man returns in glory." A false prophesy.

According to the old testament, Jewish law, Jesus got exactly what he deserved. Jesus claiming power and ordination from God to speak with authority as a prophet was enough to deserve death under Jewish law.

What would the Roman crucifiers care about blasphemy against the Jewish God?

It's technically sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

I think that's a very arguable statement. Religion seems to divide more than unite. I would think survival would have bound the first societies together, more numbers, more hunters/farmers, more protection, more survival. I would guess that religion was born out of fear and ignorance--"Where'd that [insert natural phenomenon/disaster here] come from??!!"

Darth Dane

Yes, the Jews feared god, as you highlighted, but Jesus said there is nothing to fear, God is Love (john 4:3).

Jesus also cats relgion out in a sense. He said that "Love thy neighbor as you love your neighbor" is equally high as "Love God"

By using Jesus commandment, he avoided the word God...and welcome atheist people. Act as a kind human, and you will have loved God.

Love your neighbor as you Love your self
Love God with all your heart and soul

If they are equal, we should be able to mix them.

Love thy neighbor as you Love God
They way you Love your neighbor, is the way you Love God
Love yourself as you Love God

God is inside man Luke 17:21



The Jews were elitist, and to take away their pedistal(sp?) was something they didn't like.

To make all eaul before th eye of God, we can't have elitist can we?





DD - Love & Laughter

jfryejr

Darth Dane wrote:But what would he have to get angry about?? The Jews couldn't pay their temple tax with Roman coin because it had an image of Caesar on it. The money changers simply exchanged the Roman coin for the Jewish coin.

The animal sellers provided sacrifices required by god. People traveling long distances couldn't carry their animals with them. They didn't have cars with air conditioning. The animal sellers were a necessity to Jewish life.

Darth Dane wrote:John 2:15 (NIV-unfortunatley!) So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area...

Biff the unclean

(KJV) John:2:15
And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;


Sorry not a bull whip. He made a "scourge" which is like a cat-o-nine tails. Strips of leather about as long as your arm with sharp pieces of metal or broken crockery tied to each tip to slice the flesh off of anyone Jesus hit with it.
Abandoned today as a punishment because of it's excessive cruelty.
The riot and the destruction of private property speeks for it's self.