TedM

Despite your commentary, which may or may not be accurate, I still would like to know of all such claims to personal ties to a HJ that traditional scholarship says was made during the first 2 centuries AD.

Iskander

But you must already know the answer .

There are no miracles to be found in this humble abode. Why this farcical search?

TedM

I don't know that I know of all such claims. I may be unaware of a number of them. I think we all can agree that claims of personal knowledge or connections to the most influential person/god of all time have some value in the overall analysis. For example, if we have 20 million such claims by all different writers from the first 50 years that would be of great interest, and would have more weight (in most people's minds) than if we have one 3rd person claim from 199AD.

I'm trying to quantify what we have. To dismiss them all outright without knowing how many there are or what they claim would be rather close-minded, the way I see it.

proudfootz

It's pretty remarkable that there are no claims that anyone met this Jesus during an earthly ministry as we supposedly have documents written by people reputed to be his biological brothers and immediate disciples.

Maybe an 'earthly ministry' wasn't a part of the story of Jesus at the stage these works were composed...

GakuseiDon

1. Papias (via Eusebius of C, 4th C):
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/papias.html

If, then, any one who had attended on the elders came, I asked minutely after their sayings,--what Andrew or Peter said, or what was said by Philip, or by Thomas, or by James, or by John, or by Matthew, or by any other of the Lord's disciples

2. Polycarp (via Irenaeus, late 2nd C):
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/polycarp.html

Irenaeus mentions Polycarp in Adv. Haer., III.3.4.

"But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried [on earth] a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffering martyrdom, departed this life, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, and which the Church has handed down, and which alone are true."

3. "Preaching of Peter" (via Clement of A, late 2nd C):
http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...hingpeter.html

After his quotation from Paul, Clement [of Alexandria] continues:

"Therefore Peter says that the Lord said to the apostles: If then any of Israel will repent, to believe in God through my name, his sins shall be forgiven him: (and) after twelve years go ye out into the world, lest any say: We did not hear."

4. Relatives of Jesus, according to Hegesippus (late 2nd C):
http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...egesippus.html

There still survived of the kindred of the Lord the grandsons of Judas, who according to the flesh was called his brother. These were informed against, as belonging to the family of David, and Evocatus brought them before Domitian Caesar: for that emperor dreaded the advent of Christ, as Herod had done.

So he asked them whether they were of the family of David; and they confessed they were. Next he asked them what property they had, or how much money they possessed. They both replied that they had only 9000 denaria between them, each of them owning half that sum; but even this they said they did not possess in cash, but as the estimated value of some land, consisting of thirty-nine plethra only, out of which they had to pay the dues, and that they supported themselves by their own labour. And then they began to hold out their hands, exhibiting, as proof of their manual labour, the roughness of their skin, and the corns raised on their hands by constant work.

Being then asked concerning Christ and His kingdom, what was its nature, and when and where it was to appear, they returned answer that it was not of this world, nor of the earth, but belonging to the sphere of heaven and angels, and would make its appearance at the end of time, when He shall come in glory, and judge living and dead, and render to every one according to the course of his life.

outhouse

your missing the fact were talking about cross cultral oral traditions.


romans were writing about jews, its normal that we would not have first hand accounts

TedM

Thanks Don! I had forgotten that the source for that first quote was Papias (alleged by Eusebius), and was not aware of #3.

In addition to the 2 Peter, 1 John, and John references I already mentioned, there also is:

Acts 1 references to family, the James reference in Antiquities, and in Galatians, and the 'brothers of the Lord' reference in Corinthians by Paul, 1 Peter 1:1, 5:1, ambiguous Luke 1:1-2, and Hebrews 2:3. Does anyone here know of any other claims in the gnostic writings or other 2nd century writings--possibly portions of Acts of Pilate, etc?

proudfootz

Hm. I thought we were talking about whether anyone ever claimed to have met this Jesus during some kind of 'earthly ministry'.

Surely if Jesus walked the dusty roads of Judea someone would have met him, or heard him preach.

There's no reason someone who'd met or had anything to do with such a remarkable person wouldn't have written something down - even if they weren't 'romans'.

aa5874

What a big joke!!! How in the world are skeptics going to agree on date of falsely attributed authorship?? It is most bizzarre that the Church admitted that known a known forgery was accepted as Scripture.

Now, Have you read the Canon??

Please, let us examine what the Church KEPT in the Canon.

1. The Church KEPT Matthew 1.18 in the Canon--Jesus was the Son of a Ghost.

2. The Church KEPT Mark 6.48-49 in the Canon--Jesus walked on the sea.

3. The Church KEPT Mark 9.2 in the Canon--Jesus Transfigured.

4. The Church KEPT John 1.1 in the Canon--Jesus was God the Creator.

5. The Church KEPT Galatians 1.1 in the Canon--Jesus was NOT a human being.

6. The Church KEPT Mark 16.8 in the Canon--Jesus resurrected.

7. The Church KEPT Luke 24 in the Canon Jesus ---ATE food after the resurrection

8. The Church KEPT Acts 1.9 in the Canon--Jesus ascended in a cloud.

The CHURCH KEPT MYTHOLOGICAL Jesus in the Canon.

TedM

Your question makes very little sense. You appear to be ignorant of just what it is that learned people who examine historical documents do. However, as I said, I'm not going to debate that issue since it is off-topic.