Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mike PSS · 10-07-2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherMithras

I'm PMing dave about the cattle. I already noted, as have numerous others, that dave's potential explanation could be considered valid, if not for the glaring cattle bit. I suggest bringing this up in every question about the 2=14 issue.

Don't forget the "fowl". That too is mentioned in both bits that are under observation.

-Jay- · 10-07-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Anderson

I've been a very busy bee this weekend...

I downloaded a copy of the KJV text from Project Gutenberg (I find downloading a Bible from Project Gutenberg strangely ironic), and went through the whole Torah marking up and splitting out the text from each source.

I predict that Dave will reject Dean's effort as unsatisfactory since he requested something that looked like a straight listing by verse (which, incidentally, appears in the backmatter of Friedman's Who Wrote The Bible", starting on page 246.

regards,

NinJay
(2=/=14)

oatmealia · 10-07-2007, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Anderson

I hope you guys appreciate all the work I do for you...

Absolutely. Thank you so much for your work throughout this thread. I now know more about the Documentary Hypothesis than I ever thought I would.

VoxRat · 10-07-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Anderson

I've been a very busy bee this weekend...

Wow! Thanks.

It seems there are still weirdnesses/inconsistencies even within the teased-apart narratives, though:

Quote:

Originally Posted by J(2:17)

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J(3:17)

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

So what's up with Yahweh?
ADD?
Changed his mind?
Bought the talking snake excuse and commuted the sentence?

ericmurphy · 10-07-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

OK. Imagine you are a Boy Scout. Your pack leader says, "We're going on a hike tomorrow through the snow. Pack 2 changes of clothes because your clothes will probably get wet and you will want dry clothes to wear for the evening activities. Pack at least 4 pairs of socks because your feet will get especially cold unless you wear 2 pairs at all times." So his initial instruction was general in nature - 2 changes of clothes. His later instruction got more specific. Contradictory? No. Ditto for God's instructions about the animals.

No, Dave. Your pack leader says, "pack two pair of clothes, including two pair of socks." He's very specific about the socks, Dave; he mentions them by name. Then, later in the same instruction, he says, pack two pair of outerwear, and then seven pair of t-shirts, underwear, and socks.

Now—does he want you to pack two pair of socks, or seven pair of socks? He's given you inconsistent and contradictory socks, just as God gave Noah inconsistent and contradictory instructions wrt cattle.

Get your analogies straight.

Now—how does your tablet theory explain this inconsistency better than the DH does?

And don't even try to pretend you've dealt with this 2 = 14 thing, Dave. You haven't explained the obvious contradiction; you've just constructed an analogy that pretends it doesn't exist.

VoxRat · 10-07-2007, 03:35 PM

Hey, this is kind of interesting, kind of beside the point, and yet not...

Being kind of a fan of low-brow humor, I looked up this movie review.

I get the distinct impression it's actually two separately composed reviews sutured together. See if you can spot why. See if you can spot the parallel to Genesis, as dissected by the DH.

ericmurphy · 10-07-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Anderson

I hope you guys appreciate all the work I do for you...

We all appreciate it, but I doubt Dave does. He was probably secretly hoping you'd never get around to it. Now he just has to come up with another excuse for not explaining how the tablet hypothesis explains the obvious inconsistences (e.g., 2 = 14) in the Pentateuch better than that documentary hypothesis does.

Magdlyn · 10-07-2007, 03:58 PM

I do believe he's moved on to his next new thread, leaving questions unanswered as usual.

Cege · 10-07-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoxRat...

cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

VoxRat, I think the context points to eating of the cursed ground for all the days of their life (wasn't that a soap opera?) rather than eating anything else from that darned (pardon my French) tree.

ericmurphy · 10-07-2007, 05:07 PM

I just noticed another goofiness on God's part:

Quote:

7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Well, wait a minute, I can imagine Noah thinking. Okay, the unclean beasts, we're supposed to take two; one male, one female. That's clear enough. But of the clean beasts, are we supposed to take seven or fourteen? By analogy with the unclean beasts, you'd assume just seven, but how do you get equal numbers of males and females with seven? Isn't seven (Noah pauses to count on his fingers) an odd number? So maybe I'm really supposed to bring seven pairs? Who the hell (excuse my French) knows?

I can guess, by the fact that Noah apparently never asked Jehovah for clarification, that Noah didn't trust Jehovah as far as he could throw a ceratopsian, despite Jehovah's pledges to not wipe out Noah's entire family. And who can blame him?

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10-07-2007, 03:35 PM	#706
VoxRat Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,768	Hey, this is kind of interesting, kind of beside the point, and yet not... Being kind of a fan of low-brow humor, I looked up this movie review. I get the distinct impression it's actually two separately composed reviews sutured together. See if you can spot why. See if you can spot the parallel to Genesis, as dissected by the DH.

10-07-2007, 03:58 PM	#708
Magdlyn Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,230	I do believe he's moved on to his next new thread, leaving questions unanswered as usual.

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