Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ixian Heretic · 10-20-2005, 02:47 PM

http://www.alternet.org/story/26721/

Quote:

"In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion ... None of the strongly secularized, pro-evolution democracies is experiencing high levels of measurable dysfunction."

Within the United States "the strongly theistic, anti-evolution South and Midwest" have "markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the Northeast where ... secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms."

Three sets of findings stand out: the associations between religion -- especially absolute belief -- and juvenile mortality, venereal disease and adolescent abortion. Paul's graphs show far higher rates of death among the under-5s in Portugal, the U.S and Ireland and put the U.S. -- the most religious country in his survey -- in a league of its own for gonorrhea and syphilis.

Strangest of all for those who believe that Christian societies are "pro-life" is the finding that "increasing adolescent abortion rates show positive correlation with increasing belief and worship of a creator ... Claims that secular cultures aggravate abortion rates (John Paul II) are therefore contradicted by the quantitative data."

I knew it all the time...

Cheers,
The IH

Worldtraveller · 10-20-2005, 03:20 PM

Nice article. This may be better off in GRD, where there is a similar discussion.

Cheers,
Lane

Cross_ · 10-20-2005, 03:54 PM

Oh my, cross-cultural studies trying to pin a plethora of behaviors onto a single determining factor. Better not go there. What's more useful is a large sample of randomized data from a small region and then checking for theistic influences. I am thinking of that Banda (?) study on divorce rates for example.

Killer Mike · 10-21-2005, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ixian Heretic

http://www.alternet.org/story/26721/

I knew it all the time...

Cheers,
The IH

I spent about 18 years of my life in churches before deconverting. Ive seen both communities, secular and the more religious. My own personal experience has told me that this is true. Never needed a study to confirm what I already knew. But at the same time its nice to get a little outside confirmation as well

dancer_rnb · 10-21-2005, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross_

Oh my, cross-cultural studies trying to pin a plethora of behaviors onto a single determining factor. Better not go there. What's more useful is a large sample of randomized data from a small region and then checking for theistic influences. I am thinking of that Banda (?) study on divorce rates for example.

I'm not sure we are saying that religion causes these problems.
What we are saying is the religious have no right to criticize the behavior
of the unreligious, since they actually behave worse than the unreligious do! :devil3: Assuming the study is replicable

Plognark · 10-21-2005, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross_

Oh my, cross-cultural studies trying to pin a plethora of behaviors onto a single determining factor. Better not go there. What's more useful is a large sample of randomized data from a small region and then checking for theistic influences. I am thinking of that Banda (?) study on divorce rates for example.

The problem is the religious cultural regions claiming that they're far more moral in these areas, when in fact, it is the exact opposite.

There may not be a positive correlation here, but it does discredit the claims of, for example, conservative religious politicians, who assert that oulawing abortion and enacting other conservative religious values into law will have the desired goal.

bernie43 · 10-22-2005, 04:18 AM

Could these figures tell us that people who need support from others turn to religion as a comforter cause their body knows it is vulnerable to do such things while les vulnerable persons don't "need" religion and accept that there is no God and thsi correlates with them more in control of their own lifes and thus less wild things being done on a whim.

Another way to say it is that personalities comes into play. Those who turn to religion has personalities that are more "dependent" on others to get along. this also makes them more vulnerable to being led astray. So it is logical that way.

Bernie

Berthold · 10-22-2005, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancer_rnb

I'm not sure we are saying that religion causes these problems.

In matters that are so multifactorial as the behaviour of people, one really cannot be sure.
A different thing, though, is the claim of religion to improve people. That, at least, has to be seen unproven.

Ixian Heretic · 10-24-2005, 03:27 PM

http://www.usenetreligion.com/archiv...hp/t-7032.html

Just so I don't waste another thread - here is another article (not a scientific study) on what is wrong with the US. It has appeared in Esquire magazine, but I've been assured it was in a blog previous to that.

bernie43 · 10-25-2005, 01:38 AM

Quote:

the claim of religion to improve people

What they have in common with many other ideological or therapeuptic practices are that they think they are right.

Getting it right kind of gives you the right to impose your take on what is right upon others. It feels good to know one is right. Many together that think they are right makes might. the think they have the right to use might to chamge al ltherest of us into their fashion.

Academics maybe name it Totalitarianism or similar fancy words.

I see it more like a kind of "rightheousness". That is why religion among other such movements to be very dangerous.

Bernie

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10-20-2005, 03:20 PM	#2
Worldtraveller Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,834	Nice article. This may be better off in GRD, where there is a similar discussion. Cheers, Lane

10-20-2005, 03:54 PM	#3
Cross_ Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: West Coast Posts: 1,786	Oh my, cross-cultural studies trying to pin a plethora of behaviors onto a single determining factor. Better not go there. What's more useful is a large sample of randomized data from a small region and then checking for theistic influences. I am thinking of that Banda (?) study on divorce rates for example.

10-22-2005, 04:18 AM	#7
bernie43 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stockholm Posts: 679	Could these figures tell us that people who need support from others turn to religion as a comforter cause their body knows it is vulnerable to do such things while les vulnerable persons don't "need" religion and accept that there is no God and thsi correlates with them more in control of their own lifes and thus less wild things being done on a whim. Another way to say it is that personalities comes into play. Those who turn to religion has personalities that are more "dependent" on others to get along. this also makes them more vulnerable to being led astray. So it is logical that way. Bernie

10-24-2005, 03:27 PM	#9
Ixian Heretic Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Mustarchka, Romania - not really Posts: 473	http://www.usenetreligion.com/archiv...hp/t-7032.html Just so I don't waste another thread - here is another article (not a scientific study) on what is wrong with the US. It has appeared in Esquire magazine, but I've been assured it was in a blog previous to that.

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