Ted Hoffman

I think the downward/vertical motion issue has now been clarified adequately.

Now, how do we factor in the Jewish conception of superimposed spheres into our translation of kata sarka?
And from the Phillipians passage (2:6-11?) - which has Jesus as a pre-existent god coming down to undergo suffering - some downward motion was involved. No?
I think that the general assumption is that the higher one went, the more spiritual and less fleshly the sphere became. And vice versa. Elisha goes up in his chariot of fire, the heavens/sky open and a dove comes down in Mark, Jesus ascends into heaven and descends into Hell etc.