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Old 01-18-2009, 04:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiopen View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
Much has been written both by, and about the opinions of "Rabbi" Yisrael Rosen.
As a Secular Jewish person, you are well acquainted with Rabbi Rosen's writings?
Are they being being taken out of context?
What is your opinion of Rabbi Yisrael Rosen's ideas?
I'm not familiar with this guy. If he is close to as extreme as the original post implied, I totally disagree with him. The original post is inappropriate in any case and stirs up hatred and misunderstanding. Like I said before, if he said Palestinians, this would be despicable, if he said Hamas I'd still disagree but cut him a little slack.
As far as I've been able to determine, in the original the Haaretz article he did not specifically say "Palestinians" it seems that it was the;
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"those who kill students as they recite the Torah, and fire missiles on the city of Siderot, spread terror in the hearts of men and women. Those who dance over blood are the Amalekites, and we must respond with counter-hatred. We must uproot any trace of humanitarianism in dealing with them so that we emerge victorious."
that was revised into the AL AHRAM WEEKLY's version of his comment;
"All of the Palestinians must be killed;......the religious opinion issued one week ago by Rabbi Yisrael Rosen.."

The entire civilized (and not-so-civilized) world has seen the pictures of the Palestinian population's dancing in the streets at the inflicting of damages upon Israel,
time and time again, so the connection between what he actually stated, and the people to whom he would be referring is not all that obscure.

Another thing that needs brought out here though, is the problem of language differences, (I have both Jewish and Muslim family, and acquaintances) sometimes in the translating and conveying things from one language into another, or as in this case, where we are reading the accounts of these matters in yet a third language,
The exact sense can become entangled, particularly when it is being interpreted and translated under extreme prejudices.
But the evidence that the gist of Rabbi Rosen's statements were correctly understood, lies in the evidence of how his fellow Jews understood and responded to his comments.

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First off, I'll note that if there was no actual Hebrew national Exodus from Egypt, the recorded cause for the hatred and genocidal extermination policy against the Amalekites must have been fabricated to explain the animosity.
That's an interesting point, but I suspect it wasn't fabricated. King Saul also was supposed to wipe out the Amalekites and showed some mercy. This suggests it was a folk memory, a fabrication is different.
Without going into reciting each individual verse, as it is presented in the texts, it is not just folk memory, but quite detailed accounts that were obviously intended to convey a "history" of actual events, as such, if those related "events" did not actually take place at the time, and in the manner that they are presented as having been done, then they are by definition fabricated accounts of things that didn't actually happen.
Someone had to be responsible for the inventing of, and the providing of these details.
That someone was coming up with a lot of detail that would not be present in any simple "folk memory". If he was working with older documents as his sources and just compiling them, then it just removes it to the older sources as being the inventors of the stories, the end result is still a work of fabrication.
Quote:
Originally Posted by semiopen
Theologically, there is no requirement to execute this. In Islam for example, I think there is a reward for killing enemies (or being killed) in a Jihad, etc. There is no reward for killing someone in Judaism. Furthermore, murder is frowned on.
Is killing "enemies" in war considered to be committing murder in the Jewish religion?
In any case, the Jews killing off of the competing peoples of the land would have provided them plenty sufficient rewards and benefits in this world.

Do I think it happened that way? Nope, "Jewish history" before the time of Ezra is something more like 90% make believe, 9% of something must have happened, and 1% of actual "real in this world" history.
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