Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Splarnst · 08-01-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryzo

I'm only asking for religious, specifically biblical reasons.

I misunderstood the question. Sorry. I thought you were asking why the Bible would condemn it.

What is the proper interpretation for the commandment against adultery? I've heard that in Spanish, it's translated as fornication, not adultery.

Ryzo · 08-01-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

fornication (voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to each other)

I am curious is the greek word for fornification that specific, or is it ambigious?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolutionary

I misunderstood the question. Sorry. I thought you were asking why the Bible would condemn it.

Don't sweat it.

Ryzo · 08-01-2006, 08:13 PM

This is slightly off-topic but when using bible gateway, which translation is the most accurate? I just searched the New International Version for fornication and got 0 results.

I looked at a passage (Corinthians 6:9) that the other thread said applied and the NIV used the phrase "sexually immoral" are they trying to be deliberately vague or do they define what "sexually immoral" is?

Anat · 08-01-2006, 09:15 PM

This is what the Hebrew Bible had to say regarding premarital sex:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Quote:

If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he hath humbled her; he may not put her away all his days.

You can see the implications: a man could force a woman to marry him by raping her, a woman could protect herself from ever being divorced by seducing a man or consenting to have premarital sex with him, a couple could force a reluctunt father or community to agree to a marriage by having sex.

In Ruth 3, Ruth (at Naomi's advice) seduces Boaz in order to have him marry her as a redemer of her deceased husband. Although Boaz knows there is another potential kinsman who is more closely related to the deceased (and thus takes priority over Boaz, and might end up marrying Ruth), he asks Ruth to spend the night with him. She stays and disappears early in the morning, hiding the evidence. I don't see any criticism of either participant.

Ryzo · 08-01-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anat

If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he hath humbled her; he may not put her away all his days.

That last part is probably interpreted as he can't divorce her. This seems to make things a lot clearer, at least for Jews. What happens if a man has sex with a non-virign, non-married woman? For the sake of argument assume she lost her virginity to either another female (I'm pretty sure lesbanism isn't forbidden).

On a minor side note, are beastility and necrophilia outlawed in the bible?

philbar · 08-02-2006, 12:49 AM

Pre-Marital Sex is impossible. According to scripture, sex is a bonding force that brings two people together as one. During biblical times, weddings were strictly secular.

And who ever said condoms prevents STDs needs to take a sex ed class or something because condoms do nothing but stop sperm. Often times they suck at that because humans can't seem to learn how to put them on right and can't prevent breaking them. There is nothing you can do to prevent you from getting STDs other then abstinence and many STDs are uncurable and can cause you to become sterile or worse yet...DIE!!!

knotted paragon · 08-02-2006, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryzo

On a minor side note, are beastility and necrophilia outlawed in the bible?

Lev 18:23: "And you shall not lie with any beast and defile yourself with it, neither shall any woman give herself to a beast to lie with it: it is a perversion." RSV

Lev 20:15-16 "If a man lies with a beast, he shall be put to death; and you shall kill the beast. If a woman approaches any beast and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the beast; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them." RSV

Although some people say Lev 21:11 is talking about necrophilia, it looks more like prohibitions directed at priests and their treatment of dead bodies as in burial.

Lev 21:11 "Neither shall he go in to any dead body, nor defile himself for his father, or for his mother;" KJV

Toto · 08-02-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philbar

Pre-Marital Sex is impossible. According to scripture, sex is a bonding force that brings two people together as one. During biblical times, weddings were strictly secular.

Did you learn this in Sunday School? Why the concern about virginity in the Bible, if sex automatically means marriage?

Quote:

And who ever said condoms prevents STDs needs to take a sex ed class or something because condoms do nothing but stop sperm. Often times they suck at that because humans can't seem to learn how to put them on right and can't prevent breaking them. There is nothing you can do to prevent you from getting STDs other then abstinence and many STDs are uncurable and can cause you to become sterile or worse yet...DIE!!!

It sounds like you are a victim of abstinence only sex ed, which has been demonstrated to promote lies.

jakejonesiv · 08-02-2006, 02:00 PM

According to the Bible:

As long as you are getting drunk and impregnating your own daughters or it is with your dead brother's widow, you are probably OK with sex outside of marriage as long as you don't err :redface: "spill your seed."

Jake Jones IV

EarlOfLade · 08-02-2006, 02:17 PM

Some people clearly demonstrate the need for contraception.

As an atheist, pre-maritial sex is not only OK but a necessity. Would you buy a car without a testdrive or a house without inspection?

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08-01-2006, 08:13 PM	#13
Ryzo Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: U.S., N.C Posts: 465	This is slightly off-topic but when using bible gateway, which translation is the most accurate? I just searched the New International Version for fornication and got 0 results. I looked at a passage (Corinthians 6:9) that the other thread said applied and the NIV used the phrase "sexually immoral" are they trying to be deliberately vague or do they define what "sexually immoral" is?

08-02-2006, 12:49 AM	#16
philbar Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Visalia, California Posts: 263	Pre-Marital Sex is impossible. According to scripture, sex is a bonding force that brings two people together as one. During biblical times, weddings were strictly secular. And who ever said condoms prevents STDs needs to take a sex ed class or something because condoms do nothing but stop sperm. Often times they suck at that because humans can't seem to learn how to put them on right and can't prevent breaking them. There is nothing you can do to prevent you from getting STDs other then abstinence and many STDs are uncurable and can cause you to become sterile or worse yet...DIE!!!

08-02-2006, 02:00 PM	#19
jakejonesiv Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,060	According to the Bible: As long as you are getting drunk and impregnating your own daughters or it is with your dead brother's widow, you are probably OK with sex outside of marriage as long as you don't err :redface: "spill your seed." Jake Jones IV

08-02-2006, 02:17 PM	#20
EarlOfLade Banned Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 5,310	Some people clearly demonstrate the need for contraception. As an atheist, pre-maritial sex is not only OK but a necessity. Would you buy a car without a testdrive or a house without inspection?

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