Chili

That's what lyric poetry allows for while the poet himself is not the critic of his own work.That's why the gnostic can balance his act and let all poets draw from it but never critique it. Isn't that what makes the philosopher king and the poet his servant?

andrewcriddle

That's a very good point some of these relations of Mark to Old Testament material could be valid readings of Mark without being deliberately intended by 'Mark'.

However IIUC Vorkosigan is using these fascinating readings of Mark as a basis for source criticism ie claiming that the meaning of such material in Mark implies that it was created by Mark rather than adapted from earlier tradition.

In order for this type of argument to be valid I think it must imply that these readings were deliberately intended by Mark.

Andrew Criddle

Ted Hoffman

Great OP Vork. It'd have made my life easier to see a juxtaposition of the Mark//Q passages in question. Are there other scholars besides Fledderman who share this thesis?

You dropped Nehemiah?
2 Macc stands behind temple Ruckus and some elements are picked from Mal 3?
+ Syntactical parralels are very strong pointers: arrangement of words etc.
+ Arrangement of ideas - in terms of order, are also strong pointers.

Otherwise, its easy to imagine ideas an author never conceived of.

DramaQ

I agree. In fact, as I've been thinking about this since my last post, it also occured to me that Vork has more going for him than the analogy I made with Miller.

One instance of an imagined parrallel in a story can be easily shrugged off. But he cites several at a time within a chapter.

I'm definitely more convinced.

Thanks to both.

dq

PoodleLovinPessimist

I don't know. Even if the readings were subconsciously intended, or are even read into the text because of some causally unrelated interpretation, the commonality of the ability to create the interpretation is still evidence of common authorship.

This is like using word ordering or other statistical operations on the text to establish commonality. It's unlikely that the author intended to use the word X 40% of the time and Y 60% of the time, but seeing the same relative frequency in two works is still evidence of common authorship.

Vorkosigan

No, Nehemiah is where the details of the verses come from. But the idea of stopping vessels from coming out of the Temple may come from Onias III in 2 Macc.

I wanted to put the passages in, but there's no table function in this software. I looked forward to that glorious day when we can put tables in.

Vorkosigan