No Robots

And I'll repost my answer (with emphasis):

Besides the parables, there are the striking proverbs of Jesus. They are short, sharp and shrewd, hitting their mark like pointed darts, and, in the manner of homely epigrams and proverbs, impossible to be forgotten. Herein lies the secret why his disciples could preserve the bulk of his proverbs, almost unchanged, precisely as he uttered them. Almost all are stamped with the seal of one great, single personality, the seal of Jesus, and not the several seals of many and various disciples—Jesus of Nazareth: His life, times, and teaching / by Joseph Klausner.

No Robots

The attempted reformation of Judaism by Jesus can be construed as a necessarily new religion for conscious men rather than bicameral men. Behavior now must be changed from within the new consciousness rather than from Mosaic laws carving behavior from without. Sin and penance are now within conscious desire and conscious contrition, rather than in the external behaviors of the decalogue and the penances of temple sacrifice and community punishment. The divine kingdom to be regained is psychological not physical. It is metaphorical not literal. It is 'within' not in extenso.--Julian Jaynes / The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (or via: amazon.co.uk), p. 318.

The main development of this line of thought is found in Constantin Brunner's Our Christ. Here is how Protestant theologian Kornelis Miskotte summarized Brunner's position:

Constantin Brunner declared that when Jesus said 'Father,' this was a veiled rejection of the religion of the disciples and a hidden profession of 'atheistic' salvation. Naturally this raised a storm of indignation among the religious liberals. We too believe that Brunner's assertion is untenable, but that it comes closer to the mystery of this giving of a new name to God than does the interpretation which regards the name 'Father' as the apex of general religious experience.--Kornelis Miskotte / When the Gods are Silent (or via: amazon.co.uk).

post tenebras lux

Yep, I saw that zionist's quote, but I don't buy it.

Why won't you answer the latest question (the one you tried to divert attention from)?

Here it is again:

No Robots: do you agree that these 'sayings of the Christ' could be a bunch of sayings from different hands in different times?

No Robots

??? You're on thin ice here, my friend.

This is the same question as before and my answer is still no, and for the same reason that "that zionist" gives.

No Robots

Oh, yeah, and at the risk of offending you with a quotation from another "Zionist", here is Albert Einstein:

No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word.

At least he wasn't actually an Israeli, right? Or is "Zionist" a synonym for "Jew" in your book?

post tenebras lux

Let's see: wiki-me .... Joseph Klausner

Einstein wasn't "Influential in the Zionist movement", nor can you claim that "he attended most of the Zionist Congresses". Whilst Albert may have frequented scientific and literary circles, I doubt most people would claim that he "frequented scientific, literary, and Zionist circles". "Klausner became a committed Zionist and knew Theodore Herzl personally", etc.

So, please show me No Robots where Einstein was a committed Zionist. :huh: Or that he was personal friends with Theodor Herzl. Maybe he was, but I've never heard it before. :huh:

No Robots

For an assessment of Einstein's attitudes toward Zionism, written by a critic of Zionism, see here.

aa5874

So, in effect Christianity makes you feel good, whether or not Jesus existed. You accept the narrative as God's love or salvation whether or not love or salvation comes from God.

Your position is therefore illogical and unreasonable.

It does matter to me whether or not the narrative is true and if Jesus actually existed, I am surprised that as a believer those things mean very little to you.

No Robots

And I blame the attitude that Gamera has for the upsurge in mythicism. There is a kind of devils' alliance here. The trendy Christian of today doesn't care if Jesus really lived, so he doesn't care if the mythicists busy themselves "proving" that he didn't. It sickens me.

Clivedurdle

Isn't this how Freke and Gandy argue? I am very sympathetic to this and would wish to take this a step further - what is it that we are hungry about here - this need for transcendence, this tremendous emotional pull, the search for el shaddai and every knee shall bow and proclaim him lord, the hunt for the Christ.

If we can get a rational handle on what our brains are after by building all these churches - or like Tony Blair becoming a catholic - we might be able to work out a more peaceful prosperous and equal planet.

http://www.glasgowmuseums.com/venue/...id=4&itemid=68