aa5874

I am quoting Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews 18. In the Essenes community there were people who became Essenes who had "Nothing at all" and there were those who were wealthy and then became Essenes.

People who have "Nothing at all" are classified as "Poor".

Those Essenes who entered the sect with wealth did give to those who had "Nothing at all".

This so basic.

Based on the short gMark, It is expected that if Jesus did exist and there was a Jesus cult that persons with wealth who later became members of the cult would have shared with the POOR cult members to obtain ETERNAL LIFE.

The wealthy Essenes did qualify for ETERNAL LIFE based on gMark. They shared their Wealth with those who had Nothing at all.

jdboy

Would an Essene follow Jesus? This was what Jesus wanted, give up everything and follow him

Would an Essene call Jesus Lord?

Sheshbazzar

There is the disconnect. There is no evidence that Jebus founded the Essene sect.
The Essenes evidently practiced communal sharing, which depending upon the accumulated collective wealth of the members, does not at all entail that the collective Essene community was poor, or lived a life of poverty stricken deprivation. It is quite as possible that they collectively enjoyed a significantly higher standard of living and comfort than was the lot of most persons on the outside of their organization.
Are the clergy, the bishops, priests, and nuns of Catholicism living lives of poverty? Yes I know the situation is not identical, but it is supported by a 'share the wealth' principal.
There have been many such communal religious organizations attempted in one fashion or another.

As a communal organization in which asset sharing was a fundamental tenet and a requirement, the gospel message of divesting ones-self of personal wealth would not have been at all remarkable, nor have given a person so preaching any particular status above others who held to and practiced the same economic theory, and had likely done so since their sects inception.

Nor is there any apparent reason why anyone within such a community would accept anyone living among them as being THE Messiah of scripture, barring such individual subduing and ruling over all nations as was prophesied, something which Jebus manifestly did NOT even attempt or ever accomplish during his earthly life, or at any time while living among them. (if he ever did)

I can only conclude therefore that the Essenes would NOT have recognized, nor have accepted this person (if such ever existed) as being THE Messiah.

They may have addressed him (if he existed and lived) by the polite honorary 'adon'ey', that is 'my lord', the equivalent of 'Sir', but it is unlikely that they used the term 'elohim' unless they also collectively and equally applied the term to all of their membership. And virtually inconceivable that they would have ever applied the Divine Name YHWH as a term for any common human, even a manifest miracle worker.



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aa5874

What?? Wasn't Jesus himself likely to be an Essene if he did Exist?? Based on Philo, and Josephus the Essenes had a similar teaching as the Markan Jesus.

There were Three sects the Pharisees, the Saducces and the Essenes and the Markan Jesus had many conflicts with the Pharisees and Saducees--Never with the Essenes.

Based on Acts, the Jesus cult was operating like the Essenes sect.

Examine Acts of the Apostles 4 The Essenes and the Jesus cult have almost identical practises based on Philo and Josephus.

[u]Antiquities of the Jews 18 It is clear that the earliest Jesus story is NOT about Remission of Sins by the crucifixion of the Jesus character but based on the Essenes teachings of Salvation by following the Commandments and Giving to the Poor.

Iskander

Salvation is a Muslin and Christian theory.

The torah says nothing about the existence of an afterlife, and Judaism doesn’t believe in the Muslim or Christian hell.

jdboy

The Essenes did not teach to sell all your things and follow them. The Essenes shared equally any property. If an individual had a house it was made available to all Essenes.
Jesus preached against the Jews that had become zealous for the Law, he called them a wicked generation. This included Pharisees Sadducees and Essenes as described by Josephus.

aa5874

I am dealing with the short gMark--not the Torah. According to Josephus the Essenes "teach the immortality of souls"

Wars of the Jews 6.8 11Antiquities of the Jews 18.1.5 Amazingly, the Essens did not offer sacrifices which would be similar to the Jesus cult of Christians of the 2nd century and later.

The preponderance of evidence suggest that the Jesus story in the short gMark is likely based on the Esssenes cult practices found in the writings of Philo and Josephus.

jdboy

Amazingly you are becoming more Outhouse like.
Jesus actually preached against man striving to save himself. Salvation was only from God and of course following Jesus.

Mark 10:17-27
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Rich Young Ruler

17 As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. 19 You know the commandments, ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’” 20 And he said to Him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up.” 21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But at these words [a]he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

23 And Jesus, looking around, *said to His disciples, “How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 The disciples were amazed at His words. But Jesus *answered again and *said to them, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 They were even more astonished and said to Him, “[b]Then who can be saved?” 27 Looking at them, Jesus *said, “With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.”

Amazingly, the Essenes made demands on people that wanted to be Essene but Jesus said My yoke is easy

aa5874

Wars of the Jews 6.8 11Antiquities of the Jews 18.1.5 You are completely confused. Outhouse has not argued that Jesus had no real existence and uses his imagination to argue for a no-tax Jesus.

In the short gMark, Jesus was some kind of Phantom--it walked on water, transfigured and resurrected. See Mark 6, Mark 9 and Mark 16.

You are now worse than Outhouse because you actually present the very passage that exposes your own errors.

In Mark 10, the Jesus character claimed one must obey the commandments and give to the poor. In effect, if you attempt to follow Jesus and do not obey the commandments and give to the poor then there is no way one can obtain Eternal Life.


Even In the short gMark, it was NOT required to follow Jesus.

Examine gMark 9


In the short gMark, one obtains Eternal Life if they follow the Commandments and Give to the Poor whether or not one was a follower of the Markan Jesus character.

Again the short gMark is NOT about Remission of Sins by the crucifixion and resurrection as claimed in the Later Gospels and the Pauline writings.

The Canonised short gMark is the earliest Jesus story of all Canonised books in the Canon including the Pauline writings and was composed sometime in the 2nd century c 115 CE-133 CE. based on the Preponderance of evidence from antiquity.

jdboy

Again you misread what Jesus is telling the people.

He never says the ONLY way to follow him is by selling everything and give to the poor. What he says is that the rich lack one thing and to demonstrate that one thing go and sell everything and give to the poor and follow me. In other words have faith that what i say is true that you will have treasures in heaven.
Now the people ask then who can be saved. “[b]Then who can be saved?” 27 Looking at them, Jesus *said, “With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.”
In effect Jesus is saying that it is possible for God to save even the rich. The rich did not have to sell everything and give to the poor.

Now show me where the Essenes required people to sell everything.