Kosh

I guess I'll chime in here since IIRC I'm responsible for first coining the phrase here on the board several years ago.

First off, Patchy is right on about it's intention. The point is to put in perspective the *relative* education level of the biblical people. Were they all goatherders? Of course not, but they sure do put a lot of emphasis on shepards.

I also proposed a LONG while back that perhaps "iron age" was more accurate, but as pointed out earlier in this thread, I came to the same conclusion that it just doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely. Besides, Noah was supposed to write the first 5 books, and that's bronze aged (if that!).

And the BTW, the original term was

"Ignorant Bronze Age Goatherders".

The point being that one should not confuse EDUCATION (ie, ignorance) with CAPABILITY (ie, stupidity).

Also, I believe the original context of making up the phrase was in a heated discussion over evolution with a Xian Fundy - the kind we used enjoy pummeling in E/C before this board got all hypersensitive on us.

Kosh (who's damn glad to be back in the U.S. after experiencing Wilma in Cancun!)

Ponzi

But how big of an occupation was goat herding to these people? Were a significant amount of them herding goats, or were there just as many tentmakers and fishermen?

Ojuice5001

Pastoralism was the backbone of many tribes in the Middle East. Probably the ancestors of the Jews were mostly herders of goats and sheep.

That's part of the message of the Cain and Abel story. In modern times, polite society takes a dim view of animal sacrifice, so it seems strange that the murderer Cain is the farmer of plants, and Abel, who sacrifices sheep to his god, is the innocent victim. But the story is trying to make the point that goat herders are superior tp those farmers downhill, even if the latter appear to be more successful

pharoah

I think that you missed Fundy school! Moses wrote the first 5 books!

Coragyps

Iron Age for some of the OT, except for those pesky "chariots of iron" that the Israelites couldn't defeat.

Kosh

Doh! Oops, well, I knew it was ONE of the biggies..

they both had big grey beards, no?

Clivedurdle

Shall we agree on Soapless Ignorant Bronze Age Goatherders (SIBAGs)?

funinspace

Ah, come on, these sophisticates figured out Iron working a millennium before the Hittites You see it was just forgot about during the Deluge...

Ge 4:22 Now Zillah also gave birth to Tubal-Cain, who heated metal and shaped all kinds of tools made of bronze and iron. The sister of Tubal-Cain was Naamah.

yalla

Well it seems the questions are:
Who wrote the Hebrew scriptures?
When?
Why?

Jumping in at the deep end it seems to me the answers are:
Probably priests [of Yahweh cult], post exilic primarily, to establish standard theo-political control.

Which, if close to correct, has little to do with SIBAGs.

But I like the term and it does accurately, sort of, describe the context in which the writers chose to set their stories.

And it's catchy so I''l borrow it without really supporting it's veracity.
Fair enough?