Freethought & Rationalism Archive

outhouse · 11-24-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

Just checking that my Post #268 didn't cause this thread to get moved over to "The Existence of God". Maybe the non-response is acknowledgment that it does not belong in BC&H. But if it were moved over, it might get confused with Self-Mutation's 11,000+ thread over there that seems to have no result except for everyone else to ridicule him.

Maybe it's that my ideas are so unusual that no one could make any standard retort to me. Practically my first post in FRDB was in "Existence of God" (with basically the opening from my FRDB blog), but the response led me to focus on texts as something more amenable to resolution. However, nothing seems resolvable without an agreed definition of "evidence".

sounds like a handful of imagination, with no backing in reality or scripture

Adam · 11-24-2012, 04:25 PM

My apologies. In putting together my over-all tome, I realized that I had already posted my complete FRDB blog on Truth Methodology back on July 1, 2012.
Posts #19, 24
Easy to forget, as no one ever responded to my #24 and the thread died. In any case, anyone who is up to entering a discussion on my #268 should post over there, leaving this current thread to resume with TedM vs. everyone. Even if my #268 here is too far afield from Biblical criticism to fit well in BC&H, its presentation in Truth Methodology does anchor it in to the Biblical Criticism there of the original poster (me). I had already planned to affix it to any publication of my Gospel Eyewitnesses thesis.

Sheshbazzar · 11-24-2012, 04:33 PM

Strange, stranger even than the Bible, and already that's plenty strange. No offense intended Adam.

spin · 11-25-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

no one ever responded to my #24 and the thread died.

:crying: :crying: :crying:

:boohoo:

It's not strange that no-one ever responds, when one continually posts turkeys. Surely at a christian forum you'd get more thanksgiving.

Adam · 11-25-2012, 09:04 PM

It's safe to say you never read my #19 or #24, because if you had you would see why I have not dared post Circle of Truth at any Christian forum

TedM · 11-26-2012, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

c. If the existence of God necessarily follows from Evolution, it probably follows that if this is the way God originated, other beings exist who came into existence apart from (presumably prior to) God becoming God. Let us call these “uncreated beings”. God is not to blame for them, but only for what He created. What the uncreated beings do with each other is not God’s fault, if the uncreated beings live according to their own systems they agree with. This solves the Problem of Evil as pertains to any beings from the Preexistent condition. If humans are among these beings, then the Problem of Evil is of no consequence, provided that we at some time agreed to continue with our states of beings.
d. Since the Problem of Evil is of real concern, it follows that we are among these uncreated beings. That we have existed so long implies that we have existed in-between and that Reincarnation of some type has been part of that long time.
e. It is possible that God found it best over billions of years to transform or do away with bad conditions among the uncreated beings. Carried to completion this would arrive at an state that all would find satisfactory. Satisfactory except for being boring and ultimately meaningless unless arbitrary problems and consequences were set up to make it seem that there was meaning. God would of course have foreseen this, so it’s not surprising that problems, even evils, exist in the world we know. Even in God’s own created Universe one would expect to see things that appear to be evil. Therefore we cannot know whether we live in God’s created Universe or in the realm where uncreated beings still are tolerated.
f. Yet our vantage point from Earth seems to reveal a world containing such extreme evil that it seems more likely that we dwell in the realm of the uncreated, or at least in a mixed state in which at least the Evil that we see stems from the uncreated.

If I follow, you are saying that evil could have pre-existed God through the 'uncreated', that God was a product of evolution, and that God may have decided to 'do away' with the 'bad conditions' that exist among the uncreated through his own brand of evolution over billions of years. Also, that humans may be an expression of the uncreated, perhaps through reincarnation. Is that what you are saying?

If so,

1. God was an accident through evolution brought about by the uncreated?

2. Where does God come in with evolution? Is he restricted to creating us only through evolution? God is all-knowing but not all powerful? Is God unable to communicate with us effectively to let us know what is going on?

3. Where is the will of the uncreated in this scenario? Why would they 'agree' with the 'bad conditions' that arise from God's creation? Conversely why would they allow God to try and change them if evil is something they 'agreed to'?

IF you don't mind please try to be concise in your answers. I don't have much time. Thanks.

Chili · 11-26-2012, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedM

Where is the will of the uncreated in this scenario? Why would they 'agree' with the 'bad conditions' that arise from God's creation? Conversely why would they allow God to try and change them if evil is something they 'agreed to'?

IF you don't mind please try to be concise in your answers. I don't have much time. Thanks.

The concept evil exist only in the human condition wherein only good and evil are known to be.

Iskander · 11-26-2012, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedM

Where is the will of the uncreated in this scenario? Why would they 'agree' with the 'bad conditions' that arise from God's creation? Conversely why would they allow God to try and change them if evil is something they 'agreed to'?

IF you don't mind please try to be concise in your answers. I don't have much time. Thanks.

The concept evil exist only in the human condition wherein only good and evil are known to be.

Yes.It makes no difference whether or not god exists.

Chili · 11-26-2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskander

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedM

Where is the will of the uncreated in this scenario? Why would they 'agree' with the 'bad conditions' that arise from God's creation? Conversely why would they allow God to try and change them if evil is something they 'agreed to'?

IF you don't mind please try to be concise in your answers. I don't have much time. Thanks.

The concept evil exist only in the human condition wherein only good and evil are known to be.

Yes.It makes no difference whether or not god exists.

Right, these are social issues that Moses used as bait to snare 'original sin' that made man a social animal, and so redemption really amounts to making human 'non' social again (and so neither social nor asocial as man).

Iskander · 11-26-2012, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskander

Yes.It makes no difference whether or not god exists.

Right, these are social issues that Moses used as bait to snare 'original sin' that made man a social animal, and so redemption really amounts to making human 'non' social again (and so neither social nor asocial as man).

Yes. Moses, Mohamed etc have nothing to do with god and it is for this reason that it makes no difference whether or not god exists

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11-24-2012, 04:25 PM	#272
Adam Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dixon CA Posts: 1,150	My apologies. In putting together my over-all tome, I realized that I had already posted my complete FRDB blog on Truth Methodology back on July 1, 2012. Posts #19, 24 Easy to forget, as no one ever responded to my #24 and the thread died. In any case, anyone who is up to entering a discussion on my #268 should post over there, leaving this current thread to resume with TedM vs. everyone. Even if my #268 here is too far afield from Biblical criticism to fit well in BC&H, its presentation in Truth Methodology does anchor it in to the Biblical Criticism there of the original poster (me). I had already planned to affix it to any publication of my Gospel Eyewitnesses thesis.

11-24-2012, 04:33 PM	#273
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Strange, stranger even than the Bible, and already that's plenty strange. No offense intended Adam.

11-25-2012, 09:04 PM	#275
Adam Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dixon CA Posts: 1,150	It's safe to say you never read my #19 or #24, because if you had you would see why I have not dared post Circle of Truth at any Christian forum

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