countjulian

There's so much spurious crap going around about the links between Jesus and earlier gods that's its hard to seperate the corn from the bullshit. I did a little work on the area myself, and posted up the results here. I've done it before, and I'll do it again...

The Greek god Perseus, born of the virgin Danae and Zeus in a shower of gold:

Perseus, the son of Jove [Zeus] and her whom, in her prison, Juppiter’s [Zeus’] golden shower made fertile. — Metamorphoses 4.697

The Greek god Heracles (known to you under his Roman name, Hercules), who died in agony, was resurrected, and ascended to heaven:

Heracles, whom she had by Zeus…the poison of the hydra began to corrode his skin…and [he] tore off the tunic, which clung to his body, so that his flesh was torn away with it. In such a sad plight he was carried on shipboard to Trachis… [Heracles] proceeded to Mount Oeta, in the Trachinian territory, and there constructed a pyre, mounted it, and gave orders to kindle it. When no one would do so, Poeas, passing by to look for his flocks, set a light to it. On him Hercules bestowed his bow. While the pyre was burning, it is said that a cloud passed under Hercules and with a peal of thunder wafted him up to heaven. Thereafter he obtained immortality-- Apollodorus, 'The Library,' 11; IV, 8-VII, 7

The Greek god Asclepius, who made the blind see, raised men from the dead, died, and was resurrected:

"Asclepius was the son of Apollo [a god] and Coronis [a mortal woman]...he healed many sick whose lives had been despaired of, and... he brought back to life many who had died."—Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History, 4.7.1.1- 2

When Hippolytus was killed,...Asclepius raised him from the dead."—Pausanias, Corinth, Description of Greece, 1.27.5

Hermon of Thasus. His blindness was cured by Asclepius.— Inscriptiones Graecae, 4.1.121 - 122, Stele 2.22

"The youth [Asklepios] blasted by ancestral bolts [of Zeus] soars from earth…Phoebus [Apollon], you whined. He is a god; smile at your father, who, for your sake, undoes his prohibitions [and grants Asklepios life]-- Ovid, Fasti 6.735

…Hercules [Herakles], of Castor and Pollux [the Dioskouroi], of Aesculapius [Asklepios] ... And these benefactors were duly deemed divine, as being both supremely good and immortal, because their souls survived and enjoyed eternal life.—Cicero, Cicero, De Natura Deorum 2.24


The salvation god Mithra, who spilled eternal blood to save humanity, and left his followers with a sacred Eucharist:

You [Mithra] have saved us by the shedding of eternal blood.—Inscription, Santa Prisca Mithraeum in Rome

This rite [communion] the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For they set forth bread and a cup of water with certain incantations in their ceremonies of initiation—Justin Martyr, First Apology 68

The Egyptian god Osiris, who died, was resurrected, and ascended to heaven, where he will judge the living and the dead, forever and ever:

[the first examination]
They [the Gods of the Underworld] say, "Come forward.
They say, "Who are you,"
They say, "What is your name?"
"I am the he who is equipped under the flowers, the-dweller-in-the-moringa Osiris is my name."—Egyptian book of the Dead

the rites celebrated by night agree with the accounts of the dismemberment of Osiris and his resurrection and regenesis—Plutarch, Isis and Osiris 364

Isis, who resurrected Osiris and with him guarantees salvation to all who except Osiris as savior:

The keys of hell and the guarantee of salvation were in the hands of the goddess, and the initiation ceremony itself a kind of voluntary death and salvation through divine grace.—
Apuleius, Metamorphosis, Book 11, 21

And [the followers of Isis & Osiris said], "Be of good cheer, O initiates, for the god is saved, and we shall have salvation— Firmicus Maternus, The Error of Pagan Religions, 22.1

The Greek god Dionysus, who turned water to wine, did miracles, died, and was resurrected:

One woman [bacchant]
struck her thyrsus against a rock and a fountain
of cool water came bubbling up. Another drove
her fennel in the ground, and where it struck the earth,
at the touch of god [Dionysus], a spring of wine poured out….— Euripides, The Bacchae, 707- 712

the fierce resentment of implacable Hera, the Titanes cunningly smeared their round faces with disguising chalk, and while he contemplated his changeling countenance reflected in a mirror they destroyed him with an infernal knife. There where his limbs had been cut piecemeal by the Titan steel, the end of his life was the beginning of a new life-- Nonnus, Dionysiaca 6.155

The devils, accordingly, when they heard these prophetic words, said that Bacchus was the son of Jupiter, and ...having been torn in pieces, he ascended into heaven--Justin Martyr, First Apology, 54

There you go. For a good treatment of the ideas that the Jesus cult imported stuff from other cults, see the works of Burton L Mack, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...420989-1805524
Robert Price, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...420989-1805524
and Gregory J. Riley http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/se...420989-1805524
For a defense of the rising/dying gods thesis that is succint, scholarly, and up-to-date, see Tryggve N D Mettinger's Riddle of Resurrection: "Dying and Rising Gods" in the Ancient Near East http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/912...4Z1ID&v=glance

azazel

What about the prophecy about Zoroaster's successors being born of a virgin every thousand years?

Amaleq13

Here is a previous thread on the subject:

Similarities between Jesus and Pagan Gods.

RainbowSerpent

This is from wikipedia

"Krishna was of the royal family of Mathura, and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva, a noble of the court. He was born in a prison cell in Mathura, and the place of his birth is now known as Krishnajanmabhoomi, where a temple is raised in his memory. As his life was in danger from his uncle Kamsa the king, he was smuggled out to be raised by his foster parents Yashoda and Nanda in the forest at Vrindavana. Two of his siblings also survived, Balarama and Subhadra.Legend has it that Kamsa imprisoned Devaki and Vasudeva, for it was prophesied that their eighth son would destroy him. Kamsa destroyed each one of their children, but krishna was saved by divine intervention."

The 8th son doesn't suggest a virgin birth. There may be other similarities between Krishna and Christ but that ain't one of them.

RainbowSerpent

anthony93

What would constitute primary evidence? Beyond 'quoting other people' I mean? This page http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm is sourced and refers to http://www.athmaprakashini.com/virginbirth.htm which is extensivly sourced. And is written by an apologist that refers to these issues. And there is not, as far as I know, any such thing as Historical Krishna scholarship, is there? Isn't the Krishna/vigin birth 'controversy' just typical apologist smoke and mirrors?

Consider; the apologist is making an extraordinary SERIES of claims. One of them is the uniqueness of JC. A doubter or whatever (just for the record I am neither an atheist or agnostic but I don't find literalism or inerrancy supportable) replies that there are parallels with many pagan gods with the gospel stories. Once examples ( dozens of them ) are produced the apologist goes down list and seizes on one, and hammers away. Well Kersey Graves was probably wrong about some things, and Acheraya S. probably is too.

The best part is, then someone comes along, and it happens on every thread like this and says something like:

Not a single example of course. Not one. No primary sources need for that, I guess. At what point does the weight of evidence (a majority of these parallels are completly ignored, for instance) coupled with the fact that it is the apologist who must back up his/her original claims (and can't or won't) mean that the argument is decided?

countjulian

No. The works of Graves and Archay S. are complete 100% bullshit psuedo-scholarship. The religious tolerance page merely cites the same old tired myths that get floated around on the subject. No pagan god, ever, was crucified, and only Perseus and Romulus & Remus had virgin births. If you wager otherwise, you have to quote a primary source. The religious tolerance article was a great example of this; they only cited Graves, Archay, and derivatives thereof. Either get the primary sources, as I did, or stop talking about it, because people who throw around these fake parrallels only hurt the copycat thesis.

Peace out.

Rick Sumner

I'll give you an example. High noon is equated (symbolically) with Jesus' beginning his work at age 12, the suggestion being that 12=12:00. Except that noon was the sixth hour to the antiquitous Jew, not the twelfth. See Mark.15:33. It doesn't make much sense if it is notable that there was darkness in the land if the "sixth hour" is 6:00 AM, now does it?

And the person who must back up claims is not "the apologist" (which I'm certainly not, though will cheerily argue that Acharya S. is out to lunch, if you'd like), it's the person making the claim. Period. If you are claiming that Acharya S. shows legitimate parallels, the onus is on you to show them.

Regards,
Rick Sumner

Rick Sumner

While the stories of who their mother was seem to vary, I'm aware of no story of Romulus and Remus being born of a virgin. Certainly a woman who was virginal before being impregnated by Mars, but no virginal conceptions.

What is your source for this? Plutarch provides numerous versions, none of which involve virginal conception.

See here: http://classics.mit.edu/Plutarch/romulus.html

Rick Sumner

Loomis

Be wear of anti-Jesus sites run by Jews. They will conceal this tasty morsel:

Some stories in the OT portray Yahweh as subordinate to another “father� god named El. The “Son of God� shit is not necessarily a pagan thing, it is a Jewish thing. It goes way way back.

The author of the Gospel of John appears to have combined the “Yahweh is a son of El� theme with the “Dionysus is the son of Zeus� theme to produce “Jesus is Yahweh incarnate, and the son of El� theme.

This is why the Trinity was necessary: No one could explain why the Jesus character identified himself as Yahweh in some places, but as the “son of god� in other places.

When Jesus/ Yahweh called himself the son of God he was referring to the god El.

Now get ready to hear the word “Philo� over and over and over again. But keep track of who is an atheist, and who is a Jew.

countjulian

Here's what Ovid had to say about the matter:
Nootice the spiritual, oblique way Ovid refers to her being impregnated. But the main focus of both stories is that before the impregnation the girls are virgins; also notice that in both stories an evil king was trying to stop the baby from being born, by slaying male children and in the Remus & Perseus stories imposing virginity. But the point is that the god is more pwerful as the king. Now, let's take a llok at what Luke says about the virgin birth.

I wonder what it feels like to have the Holy Spirit "come upon you?" Notice the text says nothing about Mary's virgin status after the Lord came upon her. Matthew, likewise, says nothing about the Holy Hymen.

I win!