Queen of Swords

No, he didn't. He could have created a robot, ordered the robot to write down the "plan of Salvation" and then destroyed the robot. That way, he wouldn't have infringed on anyone's free will.

Why didn't he do this, Magus? Why? Just think of how much more real love he would have gotten from people who were otherwise forced to believe just because they saw him.

One more inconsistency in the bible.

I don't see how the knowledge of hell somehow interferes with the knowledge of god. Could you explain this peculiarity further?

Why is it more important? I'd much rather trust something for which there is evidence - better evidence than the usual claims in this forum, you understand. For god to threaten people with hell while withholding such evidence is unjust.

Ad Astra

And so would I, and probably most of the atheists here, if God provided some evidence for his existence.

Oh, same here, but so far neither you nor God has presented any evidence.

That's exactly what some credible evidence would so for me.

Why? Doesn't he respect us? Can't we have a little input?

I'm just asking for some evidence, not for God to bow down to me. Haven't you been reading my posts?

If that's God's attitude, then he is benevolent.

Which isn't what I've been asking for...

Then why are you even here?

Evidence, please.

How can we know it ways when he refuses to talk to us?

Wow, believe or burn. What great choices.

Until God and I actually have a talk about this, I really wouldn't know. Sorry Magus, but you're a terrible source of information and I'd rather to talk to this God fellow myself.

Magus55

I claimed 4+ billion who find Christianity useful in terms of aspects, doctrines, values etc. from Christianity be incorporated into their life. The original position said nothing about those who are Christian, it only stated those who find it useful is 2 billion. Yes there are 2 billion actual Christians, but there are more than 2 billion who find it useful in some regard.


I never claimed it did.



Your point? Are you perfect?

Ronin

This sentiment (claim) precisely addresses my reason three, Magus55

A Christian cannot maintain the claim that such a deity is representative of unconditional love and promote that "you are either for God or against Him" without persistently promoting an inconsistency.

Queen of Swords

No, actually, he's a clear example of this argument being right.

He had no choice but to follow god. You know why? Because he heard god speak to him. If only god had hidden himself from Abraham and sent him inconsistent, evidence-free letters in order to tell him what to do, Abraham's free will would not have been violated and he would have truly loved god.

I wasn't referring to you, but hey, if the shoe fits.

If he condemns people to an eternity in hell, that's torture, if we're talking about the literal hell described in the bible.

But the human mind gives it the old college try, cramming in gold and precious stones for good measure.

What hyperbole. The authors of the bible could only come up with fire and worms, but posts like this do them one better.

And if that's the case, god is torturing people for all eternity.

Is that a scientific fact, or just your own unsupportable opinion?

Which brings us back to the OP. First show that there's a god.

Ad Astra

Now, show us all how you arrived that the number four billion or just admit you're playing a semantics game. I don't know why you find it so difficult, but in the context of his post, and this entire thread, it's pretty obvious that cjack meant "believe" when he said "find useful." I mean, this entire thread has only been about "belief" as opposed to "usefulness."

But by trying to group all the religions that borrowed from Christianity with Christianty, you are strongly implying it.

No, but I would, just for once, like to see you admit that you were wrong about something.

Gospelog2

Magus,

Take care of yourself. Remember how Jesus took care of Himself when Satan harrassed Him.

Magus55

He's not threatening you with Hell. Threatening you with Hell would be revealing to you He exists and saying worship me or burn in Hell. You don't know He exists, so where is the threat?

And you probably would be.



eh. wrong. I don't believe out of fear. I admire Jesus' principles and what He stood for. If I knew for a fact God was real, and if I didn't believe in Him, I'd know my fate was Hell, in which case I may believe out of fear. But none of the above applies. I don't fear Hell because I'm saved from it through God's grace. Why should I fear it?



If God exists, its impossible for His laws to be wrong. And since when does thinking laws are wrong mean you can break them? If you think its wrong for the government to make murder illegal, and you go murder because you think the government is wrong, do you think the government gives a crap what you think about their laws? You obey them or go to prison.



Humans and God are not equal. Not quite sure where you came up with that load of crap. God is infinitely superior to humans. There isn't equality between the 2.

Why? Would the drafters of the constitution have to keep rewriting a new consitution for every human in America if they could because copies aren't good enough for some people?



Nope, for you.


Nah, God has more control of your life than you do.



Gods not pointing a gun at you. You don't believe God exists, so where is the threat?



Nah, you aren't separated from Him yet.

Queen of Swords

Gospelog2 :

Argumentum ad cutnpastum? Uncompelling, to say the least.

Magus55

How do you figure? God doesn't need a condition to love someone. I'm just so amused at how atheists assume that because God supposedly loves humanity, that He should just let them do whatever they want and screw the laws.