Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Coragyps · 04-19-2004, 02:32 PM

Quote:

the house was owned by Hovind and he was renting it

He obviously couldn't have owned it and rented it out! He didn't have any income!

AJ the greek · 04-19-2004, 04:08 PM

In the news article, his attorney is Glen Stoll from Washington state, I thought that was odd, so I googled his name. Glen is apparently a big player in the "constitutionalist/survivalist/sovereign persons/etc." movement.

Hovind must have alternate reality legal theories that he is not bound by either US or Florida law, since he refuses to permit the building, doesnt pay taxes, yada yada. It all fits the pattern of these people.

some links on Stoll:

http://www.skeptictank.org/corpsoul.htm

http://www.embassyofheaven.com/newsl...5/news9705.htm

http://www.embassyofheaven.com/newsl...2/news9902.htm

" It starts off innocently enough. Seven of us are headed down Interstate 5 to Sacramento to a Preparedness Expo...

(they are pulled over for having "kingdom of heaven" license plates and held at gunpoint for a while while they refuse to get out.)

The patrol car moves into the left lane and paces us. The Kingdom of Heaven license plates are obvious. We go with Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and Director over all our governmental affairs"

http://radio.embassyofheaven.com/radio/T9831B.htm

"Glen Stoll shares his adventures as a medical missionary into Mexico, traveling with a Kingdom of Heaven passport. The U.S. border patrols informs ambassador Stoll that he cannot perform his ministry, so long as he continues to work under the authority of Jesus Christ."

http://radio.embassyofheaven.com/radio/T9834D.htm

" Glen Stoll took police on a 100 mile car "chase" through several road blocks. Glen was finally stopped and surrounded by men with drawn guns. He was hauled to jail, and released a few hours later with no charges filed. It was one of the first times a Kingdom of Heaven passport was presented."

http://www.djc.com/news/business/11002159.html

"December 28, 1999

Use of corporate 'soles' draws attention
SPOKANE (AP) -- Some people in anti-government movements have been using a little-known state law to declare themselves "corporation soles," religious corporations that are exempt from many regulations.

The secretary of state's office hands out certificates for these one-person religious corporations with little review"

(maybe hovind did thus under the advise of Stoll, but I would wonder if such a WA corp entity would be able to dodge FL law, even if it worked in WA.)

Hexene · 04-19-2004, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coragyps

Hi, Hexene! Welcome to Infidels! It's always good to have another chemist around..

Hi, Coragyps! Its good to know that another fellow chemist is around in Infidels!

RufusAtticus · 05-01-2004, 10:18 AM

The NY Times discusses Hovind.

Darwin-Free Fun for Creationists

Quote:

Take Jumpasaurus, which involves jumping on a trampoline while trying to throw a ball through a hoop as many times as possible in a minute. The science lesson: "You will use coordination in this game, which means you will be doing more than one thing at once." The spiritual lesson, according to Mr. Johnson: "You need to learn to be coordinated for Jesus Christ so you can get more things done for him."

Duvenoy · 05-01-2004, 10:51 AM

Well, at least they published this in Arts section rather than Science or Education. It'd have been better still if they had a Fantasy page.

Eugenie Clark's quote was, as always point on.

Quote:

Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, which tracks creationist programs, said traditional creationists like Mr. Hovind had in fact given up on building intellectual credibility years ago.

And went on to show that Hovind and Ham are pretty much putting forth their tripe like a pair of carnies.

Good article. Thanks!

Edited for a little Creationist spelling.

doov

RufusAtticus · 05-02-2004, 09:56 AM

Baptist Board discusses Hovind

Duvenoy · 05-02-2004, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RufusAtticus

Baptist Board discusses Hovind

Now that's interesting. It seems that Hovind is not recieving blind, knee-jerk support from most of these folks.

Quote:

"Hovind also has a May 18 court date on three misdemeanor charges stemming from his refusal to get a building permit. He objects to the permit process as an undue expense on his church."

Well, isn't he special? We mere mortals have to get building permits, so he should too. Baptists have a history of civil disobedience, but in matters that pertain to conscience, not "undue expense on his church."

Exactly what is Baptist "church law?" I suspect it's whatever Hovind and his lawyer want to make up — probably based on medieval Latin Rite canon law. I'm sure he would miss the irony there.

It's sad when "Baptists" make such special pleadings against the civil authority.

doov

pz · 05-02-2004, 11:29 AM

It's sad, isn't it? American Baptists have a good history of tolerance and coexistence in a pluralist society, yet somehow that church has been taken over by reactionary yahoos who give the whole establishment a ripe stench.

Shpongle · 05-02-2004, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RufusAtticus

Baptist Board discusses Hovind

Wow, that JeffM guy is a piece of work, comparing income tax to the Holocaust of all things. But it was refreshing to see some fundamentalists not falling in lockstep with the "rah-rah Hovind" crowd (even if they are still creationists).

What really galls me, though, is if Hovind is so dead-set against following his own governments laws, why not just leave the country? I'm sure there are countries out there where you don't have to pay income tax.

Duvenoy · 05-02-2004, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pz

It's sad, isn't it? American Baptists have a good history of tolerance and coexistence in a pluralist society, yet somehow that church has been taken over by reactionary yahoos who give the whole establishment a ripe stench.

Yes. Yes, it is sad.

But if the Theory of Evoultion tells us anything, it's that everything changes. The change might not be all for the best, but it will happen none the less.

Indeed, a glance at history shows many upheavels in Christianity. I'd not be suprised to see another, minor one amongst the Baptists as the faithful finally realize just how badly they're being jerked around.

Hovind at al. are no more than a symptom of the illness afflicting the sect, like blebs on a snake bite. From my reading, I'm beginning to think that Dr? Dino is beginning to lose his audience. Other Creationists have already scolded him for his behavior and some of the posts in the afore mentioned thread are less than supportive of him.

"This too, shall pass."

doov

04-19-2004, 04:08 PM	#22
AJ the greek Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: out there Posts: 140	he lives in an alternate reality In the news article, his attorney is Glen Stoll from Washington state, I thought that was odd, so I googled his name. Glen is apparently a big player in the "constitutionalist/survivalist/sovereign persons/etc." movement. Hovind must have alternate reality legal theories that he is not bound by either US or Florida law, since he refuses to permit the building, doesnt pay taxes, yada yada. It all fits the pattern of these people. some links on Stoll: http://www.skeptictank.org/corpsoul.htm http://www.embassyofheaven.com/newsl...5/news9705.htm http://www.embassyofheaven.com/newsl...2/news9902.htm " It starts off innocently enough. Seven of us are headed down Interstate 5 to Sacramento to a Preparedness Expo... (they are pulled over for having "kingdom of heaven" license plates and held at gunpoint for a while while they refuse to get out.) The patrol car moves into the left lane and paces us. The Kingdom of Heaven license plates are obvious. We go with Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and Director over all our governmental affairs" http://radio.embassyofheaven.com/radio/T9831B.htm "Glen Stoll shares his adventures as a medical missionary into Mexico, traveling with a Kingdom of Heaven passport. The U.S. border patrols informs ambassador Stoll that he cannot perform his ministry, so long as he continues to work under the authority of Jesus Christ." http://radio.embassyofheaven.com/radio/T9834D.htm " Glen Stoll took police on a 100 mile car "chase" through several road blocks. Glen was finally stopped and surrounded by men with drawn guns. He was hauled to jail, and released a few hours later with no charges filed. It was one of the first times a Kingdom of Heaven passport was presented." http://www.djc.com/news/business/11002159.html "December 28, 1999 Use of corporate 'soles' draws attention SPOKANE (AP) -- Some people in anti-government movements have been using a little-known state law to declare themselves "corporation soles," religious corporations that are exempt from many regulations. The secretary of state's office hands out certificates for these one-person religious corporations with little review" (maybe hovind did thus under the advise of Stoll, but I would wonder if such a WA corp entity would be able to dodge FL law, even if it worked in WA.)

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05-02-2004, 09:56 AM	#26
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	Baptist Board discusses Hovind

05-02-2004, 11:29 AM	#28
pz Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Morris, MN Posts: 3,341	It's sad, isn't it? American Baptists have a good history of tolerance and coexistence in a pluralist society, yet somehow that church has been taken over by reactionary yahoos who give the whole establishment a ripe stench.

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