Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Pappy Jack · 07-11-2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pappy Jack

I still await your arguments about why you prefer Smyth's astronomical calculations (which are supported by no other evidence as to the date of Khufu's Pyramid) over, for example, Dr Kate Spence's calculations (which are, and which can also be related directly to the orientations of other pyramids in Egypt)......

Please see my recent posts in the Pyramid thread which address this. I have not seen you present Spence's calculations in that thread. I have only seen you make arguments by link. Dean Anderson has been making his own arguments, which is why I am responding primarily to him. If you would do the same, I would respond more.

I referred you to Spence's calculations and the reference stars she used at rd.net. If you couldn't be bothered to have a look at them there, why should you be bothered here? Also I am still interested in why you prefer calculations based on data 100+ years old to those based on current data?

deadman_932 · 07-11-2007, 08:21 AM

Let's look at the facts again, dave:
I and many others can provide you with radiometric and other dates for cultures preceding UR that run right through your alleged flood dates. PERIOD. There's lots of archaeological and physical anthro data to show that you are just flat wrong, and you have never been able to directly refute that data.

what you offer in return is references to other myths...and claim things like the Titan story was really about the patriarchs? That's all you have, along with faked population figures that you have to "cook" so drastically that you eliminate reality completely.

Your views are not merely myopic, they're verging on the comedy of Mr. Magoo

deadman_932 · 07-11-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Old Carbon 14 dates do not take into consideration the effects of the Flood on C14 levels, thus they cannot be trusted

and exactly what effects would those be NOW, Dave? you've tried to run through every fake scenario you could imagine up. What magical properties does water ( in your mind) have to change radiocarbon now?

deadman_932 · 07-11-2007, 08:24 AM

C'mon, dave...I'm waiting for an actual coherent non-evasive response.

Constant Mews · 07-11-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

Please note: If anyone here tries to argue that some civilization lived right through the Flood dates and bases their argument on Carbon 14 dating, then forget it. This does not hold water with me.

It is factual science - your personal opinion on the topic is valueless.

Quote:

Old Carbon 14 dates do not take into consideration the effects of the Flood on C14 levels, thus they cannot be trusted.

Mike PSS demolished your argument. Must we rehash it here?

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In my opinion, you will always have a very confused view of history if you mythologize such a momentous event as the Global Flood, which is so well supported from not only a vast body of literature, but also a vast body of physical evidence.

There is no physical evidence to support the flood, and in our debate I have proved it did not happen. And please note that my proof does not rely on C14 dating.

ericmurphy · 07-11-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

Eric ...

Quote:

Dave, I can't help but note you completely failed to address Pappy Jack's figures for population statistics in ancient Egypt, despite the fact that you quoted them in your response. Was this just an oversight?

Many modern people groups -- many Indian groups in the area where my father was, for example -- have lost many life-enhancing aspects of their culture, thus their lifespans are shortened and their infant mortality is higher, etc.

Dave, where is this coming from? How do you know they "lost" these "life-enhancing aspects of their culture"? Am I supposed to take your word for this? You have still completely failed to address Pappy Jack's figures for population statistics in ancient Egypt. Why did you even bother to quote my question? Your response doesn't deal with it in any way. Is this supposed to be a response, in some fashion, to Pappy Jack's complete devastation of your claims?

Pappy Jack · 07-11-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

Please note: If anyone here tries to argue that some civilization lived right through the Flood dates and bases their argument on Carbon 14 dating, then forget it. This does not hold water with me. Old Carbon 14 dates do not take into consideration the effects of the Flood on C14 levels, thus they cannot be trusted. In my opinion, you will always have a very confused view of history if you mythologize such a momentous event as the Global Flood, which is so well supported from not only a vast body of literature, but also a vast body of physical evidence.

Personal incredulity is worth nothing. As there is no proof of a global Flud, you cannot argue that such a Flud has affected C14 dating in any way. Numerous posters have demonstrated the flaws in your criticisms of C14 dating techniques both here and at rd.net. You may choose to ignore them, but that doesn't mean that they will go away.

ericmurphy · 07-11-2007, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

The excavations at Ur by Woolley and other excavations indicate a very advanced society complete with high science, astronomy, medicine, formal schooling, etc. in the time frame which would have been shortly after the Flood. This high technology would have logically been carried by Noah's clan. Where else did it come from?

Dave, this is worse than stupid. You're assuming what you're attempting to prove. You assume that since your "flood" happened, all knowledge of ancient post-"flood" civilization must have come from Noah. Everyone else knows that the "flood" never happened, and that whatever technology was present at Ur was developed by the people who lived there, over thousands of years.

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Your gradual cultural evolution model over many tens of thousands of years is untenable because you reject such an obvious occurrence in history -- the Global Flood. Once you correct this "beam in the eye", world history starts to make sense.

Except that your "flood" never happened. You proved that all by yourself. When you dispense with this notion of a mythical "flood," the gradual cultural evolution model over many tens of thousands of years not only makes sense, but is supported by actual empirical evidence, something your wild-ass imaginings lack.

deadman_932 · 07-11-2007, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_932

Quote:

Old Carbon 14 dates do not take into consideration the effects of the Flood on C14 levels, thus they cannot be trusted

and exactly what effects would those be NOW, Dave? you've tried to run through every fake scenario you could imagine up. What magical properties does water ( in your mind) have to change radiocarbon now?

I'm still waiting for a direct, coherent, non-evasive response, Dave. Mike, myself and many others have already shown you were incapable of showing radiometric dating wrong.

What magical properties will you today claim that water has?

Or will you invoke the accellerated nuclear decay that would have melted down the planet, as Calilaseia demonstrated?

Well, Dave?

deadman_932 · 07-11-2007, 08:31 AM

Let me guess, AFDave...you're "out of time for today" again?

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07-11-2007, 08:21 AM	#72
deadman_932 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Altadena, California Posts: 3,271	Let's look at the facts again, dave: I and many others can provide you with radiometric and other dates for cultures preceding UR that run right through your alleged flood dates. PERIOD. There's lots of archaeological and physical anthro data to show that you are just flat wrong, and you have never been able to directly refute that data. what you offer in return is references to other myths...and claim things like the Titan story was really about the patriarchs? That's all you have, along with faked population figures that you have to "cook" so drastically that you eliminate reality completely. Your views are not merely myopic, they're verging on the comedy of Mr. Magoo

07-11-2007, 08:24 AM	#74
deadman_932 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Altadena, California Posts: 3,271	C'mon, dave...I'm waiting for an actual coherent non-evasive response.

07-11-2007, 08:31 AM	#80
deadman_932 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Altadena, California Posts: 3,271	Let me guess, AFDave...you're "out of time for today" again?

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