Duvduv

I would have to check the chronologies, but I seem to remember that Ezra went back and forth to Jerusalem more than once, so perhaps Ben Sira was referring to a time when Ezra was in Babylonia. Indeed, traditionally Ezra is BURIED in Iraq, I think in Baghdad.

DCHindley

That was Nehemiah who served two terms as governor of the Persian satrapy of Yahud, spending the intervening time back in Babylon (or wherever) with the king. Ezra's genealogy is essentially identical to that of Joshua son of Jehozadek*, and he is said to have introduced the feast of booths "for the first time since the exile," although elsewhere it is recorded that it was Zerubabel and Joshua son of Jehozadek who did this.** Some folks have suggested that Ezra is actually a ghost image of Joshua projected into the time of Nehemiah.

DCH

*

EZRA 7:1-5	NEHEMIAH 11:10-11	CHRONICLES 6:3-15
Ezra	*	Jehozadak
Seraiah	Seraiah	Seraiah
Azariah	*	Azariah
Hilkiah	Hilkiah	Hilkiah
Shallum	Meshullam	Shallum
Zadok	Zadok	Zadok
*	Meraioth	*
Ahitub	Ahitub	Ahitub
Amariah	*	Amariah
Azariah	*	Azariah
*	*	Johanan
*	*	Azariah
*	*	Ahimaaz
*	*	Zadok
*	*	Ahitub
*	*	Amariah
Meraioth	*	Meraioth
Zerahiah	*	Zerahiah
Uzzi	*	Uzzi
Bukki	*	Bukki
Abishua	*	Abishua
Phinehas	*	Phinehas
Eleazar	*	Eleazar
Aaron	*	Aaron

**Here is the chronology of the return as preserved in Ezra/Nehemiah:

The following table has all possible key dates in the history of the Jewish returns from the Babylonian exile: (Dates are given according to the Babylonian civil calendar, which begins in the spring, and which also is the same as the Jewish Sacred year).

A) Return under Sheshbazzar, prince of Judah:

1) Departure from Babylon and arrival in Yahud as Governor (Ezra 1:1-10 & 5:14).

Sometime in 1st year of Cyrus (538/537 BC). Exact dates not recorded.

2) Started rebuilding the temple. Foundation set (Ezra 1:3 & 5:14-16).

Sometime in 1st year of Cyrus (538/537 BC). Exact date not recorded.

B) Return under leadership of prince Zerubbabel and high priest Joshua:

1) Departure from Babylon and arrival in Yahud (Ezra 3:2 & Hag 2:1-4).

Sometime in 2nd year of Darius I (520/519 BC). Exact dates not recorded.

2) The prophet Haggai exhorts Zerubbabel to resume rebuilding the temple (Hag 1:1f & Ezra 5:1-2).

2nd year of Darius I (520/519 BC). 1st day of the 6th month = Aug 29, 520 BC.

3) Rebuilding of Temple, started by Sheshbazzar but not completed, resumes (Hag 1:15).

2nd year of Darius I (520/519 BC). 24th day of the 6th month = Sep 21, 520 BC.

4) Alter erected and sacrifices made (Ezra 3:1-7).

2nd year of Darius I (520/519 BC). 1st of the 7th month = Sep 27, 520 BC.

5) Feast of booths observed (Ezra 3:4)
[See also the observance of this festival under the return of Ezra (Neh 8:13-18) in the 7th year of "Artaxerxes" (I = 458/457 BC; II = 398/397 BC; III = 352/351 BC) both of which are claimed to be the first observance since the exile began.]

2nd year of Darius I (520/519 BC). 15th-21st of the 7th month = Oct 11-17, 520 BC.

6) Zechariah's address was given (Zech 1:1 & Ezra 5:1-2).

2nd year of Darius I (520/519 BC). 8th month = Oct/Nov, 520 BC.

7) Foundation of the temple laid, and official temple hierarchy re-established (Ezra 3:8-13).

2nd year from arrival, i.e., 3rd year of Darius I (519/518 BC). 2nd month = Apr/May 519 BC.

8) The temple was completed (Ezra 6:15).

6th year of Darius I (516/515 BC). 3rd of Adar (12th month) = Mar 12, 515 BC.

For the returns under Nehemiah and Ezra, there are a couple of alternatives. The usual academic reconstruction puts Nehemiah's 2 returns under Artaxerxes I and Ezra's under Artaxerxes II. The alternative favored by evangelicals also puts Ezra's return under Artaxerxes I. Artaxerxes III did not rule long enough to be a possibility for Nehemiah, but is a candidate for Ezra. A ban on building of the city wall was in effect during the reign of “Artaxerxes” (Ezra 4:7-24a) but who made the attempt to build them that caused the ban is not stated. If Nehemiah was recalled for his wall building activity, then how did he maintain his governorship for 12 years? Ezra 4:21 suggests that it happened before Nehemiah’s governorship, as a decree from Artaxerxes is required to allow rebuilding. Nehemiah’s return was a result of such a decree. Nehemiah then completed the construction as fast as possible to prevent it from being ordered stopped again.

C) Return under Nehemiah:

1) Arrives as Governor of Yahud (Neh 2:1-11).

20th year of Artaxerxes I (445/444 BC). Nisan (1st Month) = Apr/May or Oct/Nov 445 BC.

20th year of Artaxerxes II (385/384 BC). 1st Month = Apr/May or Oct/Nov 385 BC.

2) Completion of city wall in 52 days (Neh 6:15).

20th year of Artaxerxes I (445/444 BC). 25th of Elul (6th month) = Aug 16 to Oct 7, 445 BC.

20th year of Artaxerxes II (385/384 BC). 25th of Elul (6th month) = Sep 30, 385 BC.

3) Nehemiah's recall to Babylon (Neh 13:6).

32nd year of Artaxerxes I (433/432 BC).

32nd year of Artaxerxes II (373/372 BC).

4) 2nd return of Nehemiah and possible limits for that governorship (Neh 13:6-7).

Sometime between 33rd and final year of Artaxerxes I (spring 432 to winter 423 BC).

Sometime between 33rd and final year of Artaxerxes II (spring 372 to winter 358 BC).

D) Return under Ezra:

1) Departure from Babylon for Jerusalem (Ezra 7:1-10)

7th year of Artaxerxes I (458/457). 1st of 1st month = Apr 8, 458 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes II (398/397). 1st of 1st month = Apr 5, 398 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes III (352/351). 1st of 1st month = Apr 6, 352 BC.

2) Resumes journey for Jerusalem (Ezra 8:31-32) after stopping at river Ahava to pick up Levites (Ezra 8:15-20).

7th year of Artaxerxes I (458/457). 12th of the 1st month = Apr 19. 458 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes II (398/397). 12th of the 1st month = Apr 16, 398 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes III (352/351). 12th of the 1st month = Apr 17, 352 BC.

3) Arrives at Jerusalem (Ezra 7:8-9).

7th year of Artaxerxes I (458/457). 1st of 5th month = Aug 4, 458 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes II (398/397). 1st of 5th month = Jul 31, 398 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes III (352/351). 1st of 5th month = Aug 2, 352 BC.

4) Public reading of Law (Neh 8:1-12).

7th year of Artaxerxes I (458/457). 1st day of 7th month = Oct 2, 458 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes II (398/397). 1st day of 7th month = Sep 28, 398 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes III (352/351). 1st day of 7th month = Sep 30, 352 BC.

5) Celebrates the feast of Booths (The decision was made to celebrate the festival on the 2nd day of the 7th month = Oct 3, 458 BC or Sep 29, 398 BC. Neh 8:13-18.
[See also the observance of this festival under the return of Zerubbabel and Joshua (Ezra 3:4) in the 2nd year of Darius I (520/519 BC), both of which are claimed to be the first observance since the exile began. The dates below are the traditional dates for this feast).]

7th year of Artaxerxes I (458/457). 15th - 21st day of 7th month = Oct 17-23, 458 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes II (398/397). 15th - 21st day of 7th month = Oct 12-18, 398 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes III (352/351). 15th - 21st day of 7th month = Oct 14-20, 352 BC.

6) Ezra's speech exhorting Jews to separate from foreigners (Neh 9:1-37).

7th year of Artaxerxes I (458/457). 24th day of 7th month = Oct 26, 458 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes II (398/397). 24th day of 7th month = Oct 21, 398 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes III (352/351). 24th day of 7th month = Oct 23, 352 BC.

7) Ezra decrees that all Jews of Yahud divorce their foreign wives (Ezra 10:9).

7th year of Artaxerxes I (458/457). 20th of 9th month = Dec 19, 458 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes II (398/397). 20th of 9th month = Dec 16, 398 BC.

7th year of Artaxerxes III (352/351). 20th of 9th month = Dec 16, 352 BC.

Sheshbazzar

Jewish liars think it a light thing to EXPAND The Torah of YHWH with their invented foolish tales added unto the words of Ha'Elohim.

It is not THE Scriptures, not The Torah, nor The Nebi'im, nor The Kethub'im, that is honored, but the lying stories and false traditions of a corrupt people calling themselves 'Jews'.

Duvduv

I don't think that this kind of language belongs on this type of discussion board, whether against Jews, Christians, Muslims, or anyone else. Sheshbazzar certainly knows the difference between intellectual discourse and name-calling which is essentially childish.

Sheshbazzar

Even your own G-d calls your religion corrupt. (or Whom would be your Elohim if you had kept His words.)

Does not your own Tanaka repeatedly say that you are liars? Need I cite all of those verses?

semiopen

As DC notes, his existence is either dubious or questionable using NFL terminology, I don't think he is probable.

This made an impression on me, this is like a person whose existence should be certain.

Speaking of burial sites. My Rabbi was going on once about Mordecai being part of the great assembly and living in Jerusalem, and a guy who is an Iranian mentioned the Tomb_of_Esther_and_Mordechai.

Of course it is quite doubtful that either of them existed much less are buried there, and of course if Mordecai would have come to Jerusalem to be part of the Great_Assembly why would he have gone back to Iran?

My Rabbi didn't miss a beat though and immediately proclaimed the Tomb as Mordecai's resting place.

I think Shesh is being a little harsh but Judaism is largely based on remembering things that didn't happen.

Bingo the Clown-O

It’s been argued that that saying originated in Ugaritic mythology – where El instructed Asherah and Anat on how to raise the infant gods Shahar (the god of dawn) and Shalim (the god of dusk).

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Gr...aq=f&aqi=&aql=

El was their daddy. And he didn’t want his kids (no pun intended) eating goats that had been boiled in their mother’s milk.

Duvduv

I know how it's very common to claim that Judaism acquire features from just about EVERYBODY but that Judaism itself had nothing inherent to itself that contributed anything to anybody. Judaism obtain elements from the Babylonians, from the Egyptians, from the Canaanites, from the Druids, from the Aztecs, from the Incas and Buddhists. Sheesh, did Judaism contribute anything to anybody in their own formative periods?

sotto voce

The Israelites conceivably gave the concept of democracy and advanced ideas about deity to the Greeks, the Golden Rule to Hindus, and headaches to the Egyptians.

And Christianity to the world, of course.

Duvduv

There is no democracy in the Bible. The kings were appointed by prophets, the prophets by other prophets. The courts were appointed. But I get your point. However, it's not a bad idea to rethink the usual one-way direction for influence.