Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sven · 04-09-2006, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scisyhp

That's what I've read.

Sorry, this response isn't worth anything. One can read bullshit on almost everything everywhere. When you say you've read something somewhere, you have to provide references.

Sven · 04-09-2006, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chunk

I basically agree with everyone here.

The only thing for me, is the fact that it all seems to have happend so recently and that it actually took off.

Look at David Koresh, less than 30 years after his death and 99% of people (that have actually heard of him) think he was nut case. Jesus, whatever he did, made an impact.

Umm, emperor Constantine?

What do you think would happen to David Koresh's cult if your government happened to adopt it as state religion and took means that everyone has to believe in it?

mikem · 04-09-2006, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

I also tend to believe that here was some sort of historical Jesus - if only on the grounds that most myths I've come across seem to have got some sort of reality behind the myth, like King Arthur, Troy, even the flood, what with the flooding of the Black Sea area somewhat ctastrophically.

I tend to speculate that Jesus was a Jewish nationalist, a member of of a Jewish messanaic sect, with some sort of claim to be a pretender to the Jewish throne.

Nor credence of supernatural claims in the Bible.

But, back to my speculation. I see it as plausible, but there are lots of people here, in this forum, much better informed about middle eastern history, culture etc than I am. Perhaps they know something I don't, that makes it implausible.

If so, I'd like to know about it, so that I can readjust my working hypotheses.

David B (hopes for comment from the experts)

I agree with you that Jesus was a Jewish nationalist. I think he went up to Jerusalem in the genuine belief that the time had come to stake his claim. He probably believed that God would choose that moment to come to the aid of Israel and overthrow the Romans in the person of Pilate. I think there may have been a botched attempt to take over the temple. What is clear is that Jesus was tried and executed on a POLITICAL charge. And at the end, he learned his mistake too late. "My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" - it's one of the loneliest cries in history isn't it?

ChandraRama · 04-09-2006, 05:23 AM

//he learned his mistake too late. "My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" - it's one of the loneliest cries in history isn't it?//

If we read Josephus, we can find that many more would be messsiahs would have cried like that.. Only that their followers did not create a religion to make them icons so that we would talk about them :-)

Ubercat · 04-09-2006, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

Did you know Jesus gave his disciples the power to heal as well? If Jesus didn't really give them this power, why woudl his disciples believe him? They would easily see that they aren't able to perform miracles and not believe another word of Jesus.

DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ!!! Ahem.. I hope that hit the spot.

-Ubercat

Ubercat · 04-09-2006, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

We need to throw out hsitory books too because you can't read about stuff in a history book and assume that stuff happened just because you read it in a history book.

Just STAY a christian half-life. You're obviously more comfortable in the dark.

-Ubercat

Half-Life · 04-09-2006, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubercat

Just STAY a christian half-life. You're obviously more comfortable in the dark.

-Ubercat

I was just saying that as a sarcastic remark because atheists said you can't believe the Bible just because it;s the bible.

Ubercat · 04-09-2006, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

I was just saying that as a sarcastic remark because atheists said you can't believe the Bible just because it;s the bible.

How the hell can you compare unverified MYTH with witnessed history? Do you assume Zeus was real, and threw lightning bolts around? Just because some asshat made up some stories a long time ago?

-Ubercat

Harry Bosch · 04-09-2006, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

I was just saying that as a sarcastic remark because atheists said you can't believe the Bible just because it;s the bible.

I would believe in the bible if there were outside evidence that verified at least 25% of what the Bible teaches. The 25% threshold is much higher than I would give to a history book! If a history book was 10% wrong or unconfirmable - it would be thrown out.

EssEff · 04-09-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

Let us say Jesus never performed any miracles. Does it seem logical to you that people would believe him as the Messiah and follow him?... did Jesus gain so many followers by faking his raising people from the dead?

Yes and yes. People would be more willing to follow someone who was purported to do miracles, so the writers of the Bible threw some in. It's all a big fairy tale. Very entertaining and somewhat tragic.

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04-09-2006, 05:23 AM	#34
ChandraRama Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: US Posts: 107	//he learned his mistake too late. "My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" - it's one of the loneliest cries in history isn't it?// If we read Josephus, we can find that many more would be messsiahs would have cried like that.. Only that their followers did not create a religion to make them icons so that we would talk about them :-)

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