Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 06-15-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Professor Tabor’s research is described in full in his new book Restoring Abrahamic Faith. He just completed a manifesto of Biblical theology rooted in the Jewish Bible in which he presents novel ideas that present a fresh view of the origin of Christianity.

. . .

In The Jesus Dynasty (or via: amazon.co.uk), Tabor presented a historical investigation of Jesus and his family with ideas that naturally antagonize many from the Roman Catholic Church. When asked why he doesn’t consider conversion to Judaism, Tabor explains that alongside his love for Judaism and his knowledge that the Jews are G-d’s chosen people, he believes the Jews are meant to be a minority in G-d’s divine plan, and he is comfortable with his place as a declared Ben Noah or Noahide. The belief in Israel’s mission to bring light to the world does not necessitate that everyone be Jewish, he says.

Moreover, Prof. Tabor believes that he can accomplish substantially more from outside of Judaism, and therefore continues his research and writings with the hope that he can expose Christianity and all religions to a proper historical investigation.

Tabor has a book coming out in 2010 with Jeffrey Butz, The Secret Legacy of Jesus: The Judaic Teachings That Passed from James the Just to the Founding Fathers (or via: amazon.co.uk)

IamJoseph · 06-15-2009, 07:54 PM

The ancient beliefs such as Babylonian were genuine beliefs, if made in relative ancient period errors - they were far more genuine than the NT & Quran, and not made as a hijacking of another religion following that religion's percieved destruction. Once, all humanity was pagan - but genuinely so. The two religions which sprung from Judaism's perceved demise are not so. Truth and knowledge is about sifting, not dumping in one green bag.

An excerpt of this article confirms that the Gospel reports had no connection with Jesus, Judaism or any events which occured in Judea. This appears confirmed when reading pre-christian archives of Rome and Greece. The victims are the Europeans and christians in general, who were first enforced, then inculcated by the exploitation of 'belief' - and the Jews have been paying the price for upholding the truth. The conspiracy is from its accusers - and they covered up their false truth with the clever doctrine, THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

Quote:

Revisiting New Testament: Was Jesus Just a Normal Human Being?

http://directory.kol-israel.com/asites/?
by Susan Wolf

(IsraelNN.com) In sharp contrast to the popular belief that Jesus was the Christian deity and preached so during his lifetime, Professor James Tabor says that research clearly shows that Jesus was a normal human being and never claimed to be G-d.

“History clearly shows that Jesus was a Jewish human being, born through natural conception, and had a human father. It was only after his natural death that that the Christian religion emerged and Jesus became a god,” says Prof. Tabor, the Chair of the Department of Religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Charlotte.

Prof. James Tabor intv'w - Part I
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Speaking on Israel National Radio's Tovia Singer show, Tabor charges that Jesus was a Jew who hoped to redeem Israel but never claimed to be G-d.

According to Tabor, the entire chronology of the New Testament is contradictory at best. While Jesus died in 30 A.D., Paul of Tarsus only began to write twenty years later, in 50 A.D. Professor Tabor’s upcoming book on Paul will detail how there was no Christian following whatsoever before Paul. Even more contradictory, Paul refers to Jesus as the seed of David and not as a product of immaculate conception.

spamandham · 06-15-2009, 10:29 PM

“History clearly shows that Jesus was a Jewish human being, born through natural conception, and had a human father. It was only after his natural death that that the Christian religion emerged and Jesus became a god,”

It's always fun to see historians present speculation as if it were "clearly" shown. I think Tabor could have written more accurately "Modern science clearly shows that all male humans are born through natural conception with a male father, and thus far, we have not conquered death. Plus, the Christian Jesus character might be loosely based on an actual historical person."

FYI, according to Amazon, Tabor did not coauthor "The Secret Legacy of Jesus: The Judaic Teachings That Passed from James the Just to the Founding Fathers", but merely wrote the forward.

Steven Carr · 06-16-2009, 12:12 AM

'History clearly shows that Jesus was a Jewish human being, born through natural conception, and had a human father.'

The search for the historical Jesus has made tremendous progress.

There can't be many people who fit that description, which enables historians to narrow their search in a precise, clinical manner.

Toto · 06-16-2009, 12:19 AM

You're right, Tabor is listed as writing the introduction only. From the Amazon product description,

Quote:

Jeffrey Bütz, author of The Brother of Jesus and the Lost Teachings of Christianity, reveals for the first time the hidden theological link that connects James the Brother of Jesus and the Ebionites with the religion of Islam, the Cathars, the Knights Templar, and Freemasonry.

In The Secret Legacy of Jesus, Bütz demonstrates how this centuries-old underground stream of Christ’s original teachings remained alive and how it surfaced again in Colonial America, where the Founding Fathers used Masonic principles rooted in Jewish Christian teachings to establish what they believed would be a “New Jerusalem.” With the rise of a fundamentalist Christianity, this potent spiritual vision was lost, but Bütz contends it can be recovered and used to bring about the reconciliation of Christians, Jews, and Muslims throughout the world.

There have been long discussions here about the consensus of historians that there was a historical Jesus. But it seems to me that some historical Jesus theories make mythicism look staid and conservative.

Solo · 06-16-2009, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

You're right, Tabor is listed as writing the introduction only. From the Amazon product description,

Quote:

Jeffrey Bütz, author of The Brother of Jesus and the Lost Teachings of Christianity, reveals for the first time the hidden theological link that connects James the Brother of Jesus and the Ebionites with the religion of Islam, the Cathars, the Knights Templar, and Freemasonry.

In The Secret Legacy of Jesus, Bütz demonstrates how this centuries-old underground stream of Christ’s original teachings remained alive and how it surfaced again in Colonial America, where the Founding Fathers used Masonic principles rooted in Jewish Christian teachings to establish what they believed would be a “New Jerusalem.” With the rise of a fundamentalist Christianity, this potent spiritual vision was lost, but Bütz contends it can be recovered and used to bring about the reconciliation of Christians, Jews, and Muslims throughout the world.

There have been long discussions here about the consensus of historians that there was a historical Jesus. But it seems to me that some historical Jesus theories make mythicism look staid and conservative.

Maybe, it's just the flakey ones.

Jiri

aa5874 · 06-16-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

'History clearly shows that Jesus was a Jewish human being, born through natural conception, and had a human father.'

The search for the historical Jesus has made tremendous progress.

There can't be many people who fit that description, which enables historians to narrow their search in a precise, clinical manner.

It is not true that history clearly shows Jesus was a Jewish human being. It is the reverse. The search for the historical Jesus has made no progress whatsoever, except that the Jesus of the NT is not credible and was presented as a myth or the offspring of an unknown supernatural entity.

Like Homer's Achilles, Jesus was the offspring of a supernatural entity, the Holy Ghost of God. Such is the history of Jesus as presented by the Church.

There can't be many people who fit the description of Homer's Achilles, the offspring of a sea gorddess, yet Achilles is not accepted as a figure of history.

It is the same church writers who presented erroneous information about Jesus that also presented information about the Ebionites.

It cannot even be ascertained or established when cult called the Ebionites started, or when they began to believe that Jesus was naturally conceived.

It has already been known that the Church provided erroneous information about authorship and the date of writing of the Gospels, and the epistles, it is therefore not unreasonable to think that the Church may have provided false, manipulated or unreliable information from other church writers.

It is a completly flawed methodology to reject parts of the NT as not credible and accept the plausible parts as true without any corroboration.

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06-15-2009, 10:29 PM	#3
spamandham Contributor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,525	“History clearly shows that Jesus was a Jewish human being, born through natural conception, and had a human father. It was only after his natural death that that the Christian religion emerged and Jesus became a god,” It's always fun to see historians present speculation as if it were "clearly" shown. I think Tabor could have written more accurately "Modern science clearly shows that all male humans are born through natural conception with a male father, and thus far, we have not conquered death. Plus, the Christian Jesus character might be loosely based on an actual historical person." FYI, according to Amazon, Tabor did not coauthor "The Secret Legacy of Jesus: The Judaic Teachings That Passed from James the Just to the Founding Fathers", but merely wrote the forward.

06-16-2009, 12:12 AM	#4
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	'History clearly shows that Jesus was a Jewish human being, born through natural conception, and had a human father.' The search for the historical Jesus has made tremendous progress. There can't be many people who fit that description, which enables historians to narrow their search in a precise, clinical manner.

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