Javaman

It happens to all of us. Thanks for being cool about it.
People "move on" to other beliefs for the most part. We (atheists) deal mostly with the beliefs we encounter most often. There is (mostly) equally little evidence for supernatural ideologies.
...and thus, not supernatural?
When discussing Biblical prophets, we must use a Biblical definition. A modern dictionary one does us no good. See the Deuteronomy passage I posted earlier.

You don't have to respond to my off-topic responses to your off-topic statements

Magdlyn

BTW, good point about Deut 18, Javaman.

Here is the RSV translation of the final verse:

Earlier it was written, the erring prophet will die. That was the same threat he put on Adam's head. (Don't we all die sooner or later?) YHWH didn't say he would immediatley strike him dead.

But there is more wrong with the chapter than what you cited.

A few verses earlier, Moses speaking for YHWH said, not allowed among the people are soothsayers or diviners. Whereas YHWH's "prophets" could be called soothsayers, and the priests used to divine with Urim, Thummim (crystals of some kind) and by casting lots.

So perhaps it is just a matter of perspective. YHWH's soothsayers and diviners are OK, HatHor's (the Cow) are not.

I would think it was a better thing to speak for YHWH and make a mistake, than to speak for HatHor or Asherah in the first place.

I'm sure the Talmud addresses this sticky issue.

ETA to add OT response to OT response

Right. Just natural. (short and to the point to save bandwidth)

dado

sure, why not? prophets were people too, a claim of perfection for them is IMO inappropriate. according to the verse you cite, each prophecy - not each prophet, but each prophecy - needs to be judged on its own merit.

besides, foretelling is the smallest, least important part of prophecy. prophecy a la Dylan is where the real meat lies...

Javaman

I don't see how that's true if you're supposed to put to death the prophets who's predictions don't come true.

dado

why do you think so few prophecies come with explicit Expiry Dates? prophets weren't stupid, you know.

redzrx

I believe that prophets were what today we call the media(propoganda). When it came to the enemy(rival countries) the prophet would say they would be crushed(the other-sides prophets would do the same). If they failed they would make-up a reason which would have something to do with failing to worship god or something.

To magdlyn.. athiest donot believe in God period. They don't believe in a supernatual entity(theres no proof of).

mario

Magdlyn

Hm. What is the "Biblical" definition? Where do you find it defined?

The Xtian Scriptures def seems to be "fortune telling," but the Tanakh one seems, to me, to be all of the above (esp, spokesperson for God). Despite Deuteronomy.

"One inspired or instructed by God to speak in his name, or announce future events, as, Moses, Elijah, etc."

dado

i like your definition. the purpose of prophecy isn't to predict the future, it's to express righteous indignation at social injustice. if such indignation is couched in poetic language that looks like a prediction, so be it, and if the prediction quickly comes true, so much the better (for the prophet's reputation).

i trust it's obvious a prediction that comes true "tomorrow" is far more valuable than one that comes true 300 years later...

Javaman

In the case of prophets, just as we both discussed earlier in Deuteronomy 18.

Javaman

I'd sure like to see you defend this statement.