Anat

Dharma, this site has the biblical support for the Jewish concept of Messiah and why Jesus failed the criteria.

Skeptical

I think this site is correct, Jesus certainly did not fulfill the traditional Jewish expectations of the Messiah, assuming of course that there even was a wide spread belief in a Messiah, which is questionable.

However, to play devil's advocate just a bit, couldn't the christian argue that Jesus was adopted by Joseph? Would that count in traditional Jewish lineage terms?

Also, I have read some sources that indicate that to the extent there was a messianic expectation, there were diverse groups such as the Essenes who had non-traditional messianic expectations, more of a prophet like Ezekial or even a "son of God", but they may not have used that term. I'm going from memory, so that may not be completely accurate although I'm pretty sure about the non-traditional expectations of certain groups.

But, the site is undoubtedly correct in saying that from the perspective of the Hebrew bible, Jesus' only uncontroverted connection to traditional messianic expectations was that he was Jewish. The other traditions about Jesus are much closer to Pagan traditions and legends than they are to anything in the Hebrew bible.

It's impossible on any straight forward reading of the Hebrew bible to "find" Jesus, it's just not there.

I've often thought that one of the prime reasons that early christians didn't simply break with the Jewish tradition completely is that the ancients derided anything "new", so they felt compelled to tie their movement to the ancient Jewish traditions. That and the early Jesus movement in Jeruselem may have had much more "Jewish" beliefs than later christians, but that is somewhat speculative based on the scant evidence we have.

Boomeister

No, because he's supposed to be from the SEED of David. It definitely implies genetic kinship, not adoption.

I agree about it being closer to Pagan traditions and legends.


Boomeister

sharon45

In the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, recited three times daily, Jews pray for all of the requirements of the coming of the actual Messiah or Moshiach: ingathering of the exiles; restoration of the religious courts of justice; an end of wickedness, sin and heresy; reward to the righteous; rebuilding of Jerusalem; restoration of the line of King David; and restoration of the Temple and service.

An appointed king, a righteous desendant of David. Bringing all the Jews back to Israel and they will live in peace. He will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing Jews back to Israel and restoring and forming Israel to a center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles. He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments.

Ushering in the World to Come.
There will be peace on earth and no wars. Every nation will realize G-d and follow him with Judaism as being the one true religion without anymore sin.

Isaiah 2:1-5 and Isaiah 11:1-5 Isaiah 11:6-9 Isaiah 11:10-12 Isaiah 42:1-6 Jeremiah 23:3-8, Jeremiah 30:3, Jeremiah 31:33-34 Jeremiah 31:38-40, and Jeremiah 33:14-22 Hosea 2:14-23 Zephaniah 3:6-10 Zephaniah 14:6-11

sharon45

Wrong, jesus did not fullfil even one prophecy.

There is no 'second coming' of the real Messiah, only his very first and only coming.

motorhead

Will this Messiah die? If so, what happens after he dies?

VoodooChild

Dharma,

http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/jews-j...sus-index.html

sharon45

One thing is, the Messiah can't die before all is restored, after that the World to Come has no death and dead will rise from their graves. That is why matthew's gospel(matt 27:52-53) has that silly occurrence after jesus is dead.

Anat

A Hassidic view of the Messianic era.

The thousand years of desolation are supposed to be followed by 'The World to Come' - a time to be experienced by the righteous of This World, but no details are known for certain about it.

chokmah

That depends on whether you believe there was a real Jew named Jesus. That is one piece of prophesy.

Maybe you didn't see this part of my post: