Freethought & Rationalism Archive

luvluv · 03-23-2004, 02:36 PM

Toto:

Have you ever actually read a book by Wright?

Toto · 03-23-2004, 02:39 PM

I have not yet, but I now intend to. If those online articles misrepresent him, I'll let you know.

(Do you seriously think he is so persuasive that I will fall to my knees and confess Jesus is Lord??)

Dr Rick · 03-23-2004, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
(Do you seriously think he is so persuasive that I will fall to my knees and confess Jesus is Lord??)

Good Lord, Toto; if he's that good, please let us know, and I'll read it, too.

Amaleq13 · 03-23-2004, 02:59 PM

I own and have read Who Was Jesus? by Wright but it is more of a review/critique of several then-current scholars who were offering their views on the historical Jesus. It is more of a pamphlet on steroids than a real book. I tend to agree with Vinnie on Wright despite the resulting pain that agreement causes me.

(I assume he will recommend the standard treatment of beer, taken orally, until the pain subsides.)

I also think I screwed up your poll because I responded before reading your post that specified a different book. Sorry.

luvluv · 03-23-2004, 03:16 PM

Toto:

Quote:

Do you seriously think he is so persuasive that I will fall to my knees and confess Jesus is Lord??

No, but I expect that he is qualified enough that one should not make statements like this...

Quote:

I think Wright is talking to keep his own courage up. It does not appear that he has anything new or especially persuasive to add to the debate.

...until and unless one has read him.

Toto · 03-23-2004, 03:52 PM

The Jesus Seminar Strikes Back

Quote:

Wright is an able, articulate speaker and a forceful debater. He uses the writings of scholars with whom he disagrees—and these are many—as a foil to highlight the significance he attaches to his own views. The way he presents their ideas, and his attitude towards them, gives the impression that only his own views and conclusions are reasonable. His arguments appear conclusive: it is as if he alone has solved issues that have puzzled New Testament scholars for more than two centuries.

The issue facing Wright and those with whom he disagrees is the same: how to interpret the New Testament so that it makes sense to people who live in the modern world. The approach that Wright has taken is not only grossly misleading but is potentially disastrous for the church.

. . .

Wright discards what he calls the "skepticism" of Reimarus and categorically asserts that Jesus did rise bodily from the dead. This he believes is a conclusion that can be defended by a fair and unprejudiced examination of the claims made about accounts of the resurrection of Jesus in the gospels. He defends the view that the gospels are reliable as reports of events that actually happened—as history—on the basis that this is precisely the claim advanced by the writers of the gospels, and they would not lie or deliberately mislead their readers.

Is this a fair and accurate assessment of Wright?

luvluv · 03-23-2004, 04:25 PM

Read him and find out. What's with all the searching and googling for criticisms of Wright? I linked a page with articles and audio presentations of his views. Most of his books are in libraries and can be read at no cost to you (except your time). He's clearly the most qualified dissenter to your view. How can you claim to be intellectually honest in your opinion if you won't read the best argument against your position?

Enough of the middle-man quote-mining! You owe it to yourself, as an intellectually honest Jesus Myther, to engage his writings.

Steven Carr · 03-23-2004, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
Stephen Carr makes a point of posting nonsense statements here from the Bishop of Durham, which has made me a bit reluctant to invest the time in a 700 page work of apologetics from someone who knows what conclusion he has to reach before he starts.

I read somewhere that Wright's FOG index is very high, so I would be curious to know if anybody has read all 700 pages.

I don't post nonsense statements from the Bishop of Durham. I just post things and ask them to be explained to me.

Steven Carr · 03-23-2004, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by luvluv
Are you taking this Steven Carr to be an authority on... well... anything?

I hope not. That would be a big mistake.

Bernard Muller · 03-23-2004, 04:50 PM

Just a thought:
Doherty's arguments against N.T. Wright ones
It seems to me it is assumed one of the two is right.
But as far as I know, we are looking at two extreme positions.
I already debunked one here.
I am quite sure I could do the same for the other.
Would they be the only ones to be considered?
Would the solution to that polemical mess not lie somewhere in the middle? That is between extremes?

Best regards, Bernard

View Poll Results: I am a Jesus Myther and...
I have read Doherty's arguments, but not Wright's arguments.	23	71.88%
I have read Wright's arguments, but not Doherty's arguments.	1	3.13%
I have read both arguments, and I find Doherty's superior to Wrights	8	25.00%
I have read both documents, and I find them to be equally convincing.	0	0%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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03-23-2004, 02:36 PM	#11
luvluv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Planet Lovetron Posts: 3,919	Toto: Have you ever actually read a book by Wright?

03-23-2004, 02:39 PM	#12
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I have not yet, but I now intend to. If those online articles misrepresent him, I'll let you know. (Do you seriously think he is so persuasive that I will fall to my knees and confess Jesus is Lord??)

03-23-2004, 02:59 PM	#14
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	I own and have read Who Was Jesus? by Wright but it is more of a review/critique of several then-current scholars who were offering their views on the historical Jesus. It is more of a pamphlet on steroids than a real book. I tend to agree with Vinnie on Wright despite the resulting pain that agreement causes me. (I assume he will recommend the standard treatment of beer, taken orally, until the pain subsides.) I also think I screwed up your poll because I responded before reading your post that specified a different book. Sorry.

03-23-2004, 04:25 PM	#17
luvluv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Planet Lovetron Posts: 3,919	Read him and find out. What's with all the searching and googling for criticisms of Wright? I linked a page with articles and audio presentations of his views. Most of his books are in libraries and can be read at no cost to you (except your time). He's clearly the most qualified dissenter to your view. How can you claim to be intellectually honest in your opinion if you won't read the best argument against your position? Enough of the middle-man quote-mining! You owe it to yourself, as an intellectually honest Jesus Myther, to engage his writings.

03-23-2004, 04:50 PM	#20
Bernard Muller Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 927	Just a thought: Doherty's arguments against N.T. Wright ones It seems to me it is assumed one of the two is right. But as far as I know, we are looking at two extreme positions. I already debunked one here. I am quite sure I could do the same for the other. Would they be the only ones to be considered? Would the solution to that polemical mess not lie somewhere in the middle? That is between extremes? Best regards, Bernard

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