Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 03-14-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Introduction:

Tom Harpur (born 1929) is a Canadian author, broadcaster, columnist and theologian. An ordained priest, he is a proponent of the Christ myth theory, the idea that Jesus did not exist historically, but is a mythical figure. He is the author of a number of books, including For Christ's Sake (1993), Life after Death (1991), and The Pagan Christ (2004). Harpur is a Fellow of the American Religious Public Relations Council, and in 1976 won a State of Israel Silver Medal for Outstanding Journalism. His biography is included in the American Who's Who in Religion, Canadian Who's Who, and Men of Achievement. In 2008 the CBC documentary The Pagan Christ, based upon Harpur's book, won the Platinum Remi Award at The Houston International Film Festival and The Gold Camera Award at The U.S. International Film and Video Festival in Redondo Beach (LA) California. He belongs to the Canadian Association of Rhodes Scholars and The Writers' Union.

Toto · 03-14-2011, 06:36 PM

The previous threads on Harpur have all be archived. The latest is here, also here.

Harpur is evidence that mythicism does not have to be anti-religious.

stephan huller · 03-14-2011, 07:09 PM

But there is far less separating a Canadian believer from a Canadian atheist. Seriously. Everyone is so cautious and ultimately so dead pan over there. Here in this country every topic has gasoline poured on top of it. Religion is no exception. When you really think about it, it is only the American evangelicals who pretend that the gospel narrative unfolded like reality TV. There is always a dimension of mysticism in the oldest writings and the oldest traditions. With Jews and Samaritans the same thing is true. I have never understood the 'mythicism' business in the first place, probably because it is an American phenomenon - i.e. you need someone preaching 'the factuality' of the religious experience. Je ne comprends pas.

Minimalist · 03-14-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

it is only the American evangelicals who pretend that the gospel narrative unfolded like reality TV.

Yes, you are correct, Steve. Except maybe for some of the wackier Jews.

Zaphod · 03-15-2011, 09:53 AM

Tom Harpur evidently believes in, and has published on, faith healing, a topic which he "spent a lot of time researching" so I would not put much value on anything the man has to say.

Toto · 03-15-2011, 10:25 AM

You won't find faith healing in that article. What he says is

Quote:

Daily Bell: You are the author of "The Uncommon Touch" about spiritual healing. Can you give us the basic thesis?

Tom Harpur: Yes, The Uncommon Touch (or via: amazon.co.uk) is an investigation of non-medical healing. Traditionally the church and other religions have believed in the laying on of hands with prayer as an aid to healing and I wanted to see if there was anything to it. I spent a lot of time researching and traveling and I came up with some startling conclusions, which have been validated since that time, which was 1994. But since then, the value of human touch in healing, has been recognized in an extraordinary way by doctors and others.

Daily Bell: Are you in a sense a naturopath? Do you believe in germs? Are vaccines necessary? What do you think of modern medicine as a whole? Is it too dependent on mechanical approaches, surgery and medications and the like.

Tom Harpur: Well it would have to be in a very general sense: naturopathic doctors require as many years of training as a medical doctor and I do not have that kind of training. I believe that nature has the power to heal of course, and if that makes me a naturopath then I am. Of course I believe in the reality of germs, I believe in the importance of vaccination and in general think that modern medicine is simply what we used to call miracles. I think it's incredible, that they can operate on the heart of a fetus while it is still in utero, this is quite remarkable.

This seems to be more in the line of what is called psychoneuroimmunology than "faith healing."

stephan huller · 03-15-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Except maybe for some of the wackier Jews

Who are the wacky Jews that think the gospel narrative unfolded like a reality TV show?

Zaphod · 03-15-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

You won't find faith healing in that article. What he says is

Quote:

Daily Bell: You are the author of "The Uncommon Touch" about spiritual healing. Can you give us the basic thesis?

Tom Harpur: Yes, The Uncommon Touch (or via: amazon.co.uk) is an investigation of non-medical healing. Traditionally the church and other religions have believed in the laying on of hands with prayer as an aid to healing and I wanted to see if there was anything to it. I spent a lot of time researching and traveling and I came up with some startling conclusions, which have been validated since that time, which was 1994. But since then, the value of human touch in healing, has been recognized in an extraordinary way by<b> doctors</b> and others.

Daily Bell: Are you in a sense a naturopath? Do you believe in germs? Are vaccines necessary? What do you think of modern medicine as a whole? Is it too dependent on mechanical approaches, surgery and medications and the like.

Tom Harpur: Well it would have to be in a very general sense: naturopathic doctors require as many years of training as a medical doctor and I do not have that kind of training. I believe that nature has the power to heal of course, and if that makes me a naturopath then I am. Of course I believe in the reality of germs, I believe in the importance of vaccination and in general think that modern medicine is simply what we used to call miracles. I think it's incredible, that they can operate on the heart of a fetus while it is still in utero, this is quite remarkable.

This seems to be more in the line of what is called psychoneuroimmunology than "faith healing."

I don't see the difference, Toto. He is evidently (and I am surely NOT going to read his book on the subject) talking about the power of prayer, through the laying on of hands, to effect healing in patients in a way that would be recognized by doctors.

That reads like letter and spirit of the wiki on faith healing to me. (I would also put "spiritual healing" in the exact same boat - the S.S. Claptrap.)

Heck, just his talking about naturopaths' training as being equivalent to those of an MD is enough for me to write him off.

mountainman · 03-15-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Quote:

Except maybe for some of the wackier Jews

Who are the wacky Jews that think the gospel narrative unfolded like a reality TV show?

I used to really like Woody Allen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woody Allen

To you I'm an atheist;
to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition.

:notworthy: .......... :hysterical:

By love, of course, I refer to romantic love, the love between man and woman,
rather that between mother and child, or a boy and his dog, or two headwaiters.

:devil:

And if it turns out that there is a God, I don't believe that he is evil.
The worst that can be said is that he's an underachiever.

I sold the memoirs of my sex life to a publisher -
they are going to make a board game out of it.

If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being
done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up.

:vomit:

If only God would give me some clear sign!
Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss bank.

igsfly:

I'm such a good lover because I practise a lot on my own.

icardfacepalm:

I'm very proud of my gold pocket watch. My grandfather,
on his deathbed, sold me this watch.

:rolling: .......... :hysterical:

Then of course there's Mel Brookes

Quote:

Some Mel Brooks one liners

I've been accused of vulgarity.
I say that's bullshit.

Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is
when you fall into an open sewer and die.

Humor is just another defense against the universe.

Rhetoric does not get you anywhere, because
Hitler and Mussolini are just as good at rhetoric.
But if you can bring these people down with comedy,
they stand no chance.

mountainman · 03-15-2011, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Heck, just his talking about naturopaths' training as being equivalent to those of an MD is enough for me to write him off.

Hi Zaphod,

Do you mean to say that you will only accept opinions on the historical existence of Jesus from a qualified doctor?

Pete

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03-14-2011, 06:36 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The previous threads on Harpur have all be archived. The latest is here, also here. Harpur is evidence that mythicism does not have to be anti-religious.

03-14-2011, 07:09 PM	#3
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	But there is far less separating a Canadian believer from a Canadian atheist. Seriously. Everyone is so cautious and ultimately so dead pan over there. Here in this country every topic has gasoline poured on top of it. Religion is no exception. When you really think about it, it is only the American evangelicals who pretend that the gospel narrative unfolded like reality TV. There is always a dimension of mysticism in the oldest writings and the oldest traditions. With Jews and Samaritans the same thing is true. I have never understood the 'mythicism' business in the first place, probably because it is an American phenomenon - i.e. you need someone preaching 'the factuality' of the religious experience. Je ne comprends pas.

03-15-2011, 09:53 AM	#5
Zaphod Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Earth Posts: 320	Tom Harpur evidently believes in, and has published on, faith healing, a topic which he "spent a lot of time researching" so I would not put much value on anything the man has to say.

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