graymouser

Mainstream religion insists on the idea that humans have eternal souls. However, it is never quite described what exactly that soul is.

In the ancient world from which Abrahamic religion sprang, at least at the time of Christianity, the "spirit" could literally be referred to as the "breath"; the word "PNEUMA" was used for "spirit" in the Greek for "Holy Spirit." This is fairly logical from a premodern viewpoint, because an organism that is breathing is profoundly and immediately different from one that is not. However, as it became obvious that the breath was not something magical but simply the movement of air in and out of the lungs, this definition no longer sufficed.

Near as I can tell, the modern version of a soul is the mind in the sense of a Cartesian dualism, that is the consciousness as a literally different entity from the brain. Since it is scientifically evident that the mind can be altered - personality shifted, memories lost, etc. - by altering the brain, how does the soul theory account for this? Does the soul lack memories? A person's personality changes in many ways through his life - does his soul change with it, or does the soul simply lie in the background? Emotions can be linked to the brain, with clear chemical causes and even caused by electric impulses; where does the soul fit into this, if at all? Is the soul actually the conscious mind? If not, how does it communicate with the conscious mind?

Views from theists appreciated.

-Wayne

Heathen Dawn

I get my beliefs about the soul, or astral body, from spiritualist sources. Example:

Spirit Teachings — The Spirit-Body (Mental or Astral Body)

Mat Wilder

This is one of the things that influenced me in becoming an atheist. How does the mind interact with the brain? It seems that this is an insurmountable problem, since by definition the brain and the mind (when the mind is viewed in this way) are different substances and so cannot interact. (Realizing this also made me wonder how God, supposedly pure immaterial substance could make a material world.)

Another, somewhat comical question, one can ask about those who view the mind as a completely separate entity (existing where now? just floating in immaterial space "above" the body somewhere? does space even make sense when you say immaterial?) is how old your soul is when you go to Heaven. Obviously people mature mentally, but this is clearly due to brain development. Are all souls the same age, but dependent on a physical brain for expression? What about someone with Alzheimers - is there a conscious mind hovering over their brain, which is damaged so much that the soul can't "shine through"? The whole concept seems sort of silly to me.

seebs

I am very skeptical of claims that the Greek etymology is the whole story, simply because many, many, cultures have the concept of a soul... and I don't think they all use a word related to "breath" to describe it.

I think "soul" is shorthand for "the part of this that is me". I don't think people have a very detailed or clearly defined understanding, and I'm not sure we could reasonably expect one, or what good it would do.

I tend to assume that, insofar as there is a physical form to this, the soul probably looks like low-level quantum noise and entanglement in the function of the brain. Who knows; maybe that's what it really is?

I don't worry about it much. What am I? I'm what's asking. That's enough for me.

Heathen Dawn

Yes, there is a physical brain and its duplicate the astral brain. As long as you’re alive, the physical brain masks the astral brain.

Godless Wonder

I wonder about various forms of brain damage, but especially the people who have lost the abilitiy to form long term memories. What's going on with their souls of such people? Are they just sitting around tapping their soul-feet waiting for years and years stuck in the exact same mental moment waiting for the body to die (or heal?) so that it can become unstuck?

For example:
Real Stories about Anterograde Amnesia

So what's this guy's soul been doing for 20 years?

Mat Wilder

And you know this how? Also, why does this happen? Did God create things this way - if so, doesn't that seem like a very odd way to creat things?

Regarding the idea of the soul as "breath," it wasn't just the Greeks that believed that. The Hebrews did as well, I think. I believe the Hebrew word for spirit was ruah (which is also the word for wind).

seebs

I have no idea. Perhaps souls have a sufficiently different experience of reality than "we" do that it doesn't really matter.

seebs

Sure... But the question is, do all cultures which believe in souls or spirits use a "breath" word for them?

If any do not, the idea that "this just came from observing breath" is dead, and all we can say is "some cultures tied this notion of self as a thing to breathing", which seems like a reasonable enough explanation.

No one's really advanced the strong version of that argument in this thread, but I've seen it made before.

Heathen Dawn

I don’t know, I believe.

Yes, God created things this way. Yes, it is odd—just like using the Big Bang and abiogenesis and evolution to lead up to us. But that’s the way things are.