Chili

According to the Gospels Hell is when a believer is torn in the saved sinner complex until he dies nonetheless. John makes this abundantly clear when he wrote about manna in the desert . . . for 40 years and they still died.

Manna is 'second hand' to children of God, like bible passages that sustain believers while they read them and then soon darkness will follow and the believer so is forced to 'run the race' until he dies. It is like spending 40 years in Galilee, or purgatory as we call that today. It is either that or crash at the foot of the cross and there sing 'patient endurance' songs until death ends that song.

The Gospels of Matthew and Mark make that abundantly clear, and please note that only in these two Gospels "the great commission" is part of the plan, while in John 20-21 the wounds must be shown before a word can be said.

Please don't forget that when Jesus went up to heaven also hell came crashing down, which has to be true if obtaining 'the mind of Christ' is what heaven is all about. It so is also for that reason the saints in heaven are said to be entertained by the folly of those in hell down below. Of course Rome does not rub their noses in that because their fire within will not let them believe anything Rome has to say.

aa5874

The history of mankind must be assembled from credible sources at any level and at any time.

My argument is that the Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century based on dated recovered manuscripts and compatible sources.

Writings attributed to Justin Martyr show a Big Black Hole for the activities of the Jesus cult and Paul from the supposed ascension of Jesus to the mid 2nd century.

Based on Justin, up to the mid 2nd century, the Jews had NO knowledge of the advent of any person called Jesus the Messiah or identified Jesus as a Messiah.

Justin Martyr exposes a 100 year vacuum for the Jesus cult and Paul.

Based on Justin it is virtually certain that NO manuscript will ever be recovered with the Jesus story, the Jesus cult and Paul and dated to any time before c 70 CE.

Now, the Pauline writer claimed or implied he was a contemporary of King Aretas but never claimed he SAW a real human Jesus, in fact, Paul claimed Jesus was REVEALED to him by a non-existing God after he consulted entities WITHOUT Flesh and blood.

The Pauline claims about his Jesus are not history but clear Mythological fables or a Pack of Lies.

aa5874

The earliest dated NT Canon in the Codex Sinaiticus contains the Short gMark and the Pauline writings.

Upon close examination of the short gMark it is found that it has very little historical value.

Virtually everything about Jesus in the Short gMark is either fiction or implausible--from the Baptism and the Holy Ghost Bird to the resurrection.

But, it is interesting to note that in the short gMark that there is also very little or nothing about Remission of Sins by the Sacrifice of Jesus.

In Mark 8.31, Mark 9.31 and Mark 10.32 the Markan Jesus Taught his disciples he would be killed and resurrect but never claimed he was a Human Sacrifice to abolish the Laws of the Jews for remission of sins.

If the author of the short gMark attended a Pauline Church, was a Pauline convert and was aware of the Pauline Gospel in the supposed letters then we would expect that Jesus in the short gMark would have at least PRIVATELY Taught his disciples that he was a Human Sacrifice to Abolish the Jewish Laws for Remission of Sins.

The author of the Markan Gospel did NO such thing.

The Pauline writer claimed without the resurrection there would be no Remission of Sins.

Examine Mark 8.31-32.

Now examine 1 Corintinans 15.17 The Pauline writer has changed the gMark story.

The Pauline story makes NO sense.

The Pauline writer claimed Jesus Died for Our Sins but simultaneously claimed Jesus was NOT dead.

What an absolute STUPID contradictory story!!!

Jesus Died but was still Alive

How could Paul prove Jesus was dead if he is Living when Paul and over 500 people SAW him??

1 Corinthians 15The NT is a Pack of Lies. The Jews did NOT kill Jesus if he was Seen Alive.

The NT Canon is a compilation of Myth Fables from the 2nd century or later about a God and his Son like those of the Greeks and Romans.

Sheshbazzar

Assuming that he was seen alive, ...first assuming that he was ever even born, or ever even lived in the first place.

Joshua, O' Joshua, man from the Jews shady past, Where ever did you come from? Where ever have you been? And where ever did you go? :hysterical:

King of kings, Liar of liars, Deceiver of deceivers,

Went forth to deceive the nations. To lead all of the liars, and the thieves, and the murderers, and the kings, and their men, about by their noses. :hysterical:

Good job old boy! Your work is about at its end.





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Chili

But Jesus was not human and the Church never claimed that he was human . . . or he would be a sinner like us.

And Jesus was not a Jew or he would have been a sinner like them and if he was not human to us, he is not human to them and thus not a Jew.

What you write can all be true but your conclusion is wrong to call them lies. These are not lies but simple truths that you may not understand (or cannot afford to understand), so that resurrection could follow in Luke and in John, and Mark and Matthew were written to show the difference between Jesus and his brother James . . who was his brother only because he was a sinner like them as classified in our Capital sins in the spirit of truth where Jewish mythology is from.

So to look for a human Jesus is equal to looking for a piece of the ark, and here then, Paul is rubbing it in your face that 'he was one too' and 'saw the same thing' and you still insists that if Jesus was not human it must be lie.

Chili

Not really and will never be done. Let me inform you here that it has 'apostolic tradition' on the anathema side of the Church right back to John 6:66 where it first began.

Sheshbazzar

Revelations 18:8

Burn baby burn!; ashes to ashes, dust to dust, into smoke consume away, never again to rise, nor to deceive men no more.

Hallelu-YAH kall goyim!
ALL will sing it, ....or they shall not be.

Duvduv

It's quite extraordinary that AA has criteria to describe the NT as a "pack of lies," but protects the alleged veracity of the dating of Justin's book and the authenticity of the book written by a novelist who called himself "Josephus." Incredible.

Chili

Please note aa that to be human means to be earthly and to be fully God and fully man means 'not' to be earthly which in the end is fully God and fully Man, now with a capital M as a post Assumption state of mind when not just the humaity is redeemed but also the man is empowered by the Womb of hIs man, that was taken from him, remember? already in Gen. 2:21 . . . to be his dowry in bethrotal and not fully his until She is crowned queen of heaven and earth.

Effectively this includes transformation of mind, body and soul in the end. So please note that the Assumption of the woman is the final end, who so is both the beginning with Annunciation and the end with Assumption, and this all without ever a bible passage read. (lots of holy smoke maybe, but not a word said beyond maybe a 'timely uttering' and 'Amen' in the end).

Chili

Oh, and it is a 'timely uttering" to make it a 'non-rational' event, and strictly non-rational or it will be a 'James-tragedy' in the end and back into Galilee he goes.