Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 05-07-2011, 12:53 PM

Bridging the Gap between Orthodox Interpretation and New Research

Quote:

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Angelika Neuwirth's work liberates the Koran from later Islamic tradition and makes the process of its creation visible. It then reads just as contemporaries must have understood it: as evidence of intensive theological wrangling on the Arab Peninsular but in a cultural and religious context that also characterised the rest of the Mediterranean region in the 7th century – and thereby ultimately European spiritual beliefs to this day:

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One example of this is the recitation introducing each sura, a formula that sounds redundant to western ears – "the most Gracious, the most Merciful" – like the illustration of the cliché in the flowery style of the Arabs. But this is wrong. It is in actual fact a formulation in parallel – and at the same time in sharp demarcation – to the familiar Christian invocation "In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost."

So the Basmala is neither bad poetry, nor a cheap copy of a Christian formula, but rather it proclaims theological reform, dispensing as it does with the concept of the trinity, just as that of Christ as the Son of God.

It appears that "The Koran as Text from the Late Antiquity. A European Approach" is only availble in German at this point.

Some interesting background here

Toto · 05-07-2011, 01:10 PM

Angelika Neuwirth Addresses the "Late Antique Qur'an" in a Lecture at the Institute for Advanced Study

avi · 05-07-2011, 02:23 PM

Thank you Toto, for the three links, all very interesting.

The message I have taken away from these three links is perhaps not the one which Angelika Neuwirth intended:

Without any reliable ancient manuscript evidence, all one can do, today, is speculate..... The oldest texts appear to be dated more than a century after the death of Mohammed.....

I hope I err, here, but I doubt that scrutiny of the oldest extant manuscript will assist us in understanding the zeal of those willing to kill themselves and others.

Ultimately, it is, in my view, not Arabic one must study, to understand Islam, but rather, Hebrew. It is, in my opinion, the practice of Judaism that explains the indoctrination of the young boys, bobbing their heads, as they recite the "holy" texts, seen with equal revulsion whether observing devout jews or muslims, at work--soon to become the next generation of terrorists.

avi

mountainman · 05-07-2011, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Angelika Neuwirth Addresses the "Late Antique Qur'an" in a Lecture at the Institute for Advanced Study

the Qur’an is seen as a Near Eastern–European text ...

Quote:

A leading scholar of the Qur’an, Dr. Neuwirth will discuss whether it should be viewed as an exclusively Islamic text. She will address ways it which it may be seen as both Islamic and Late Antique.

According to Neuwirth, before the Qur’an was recognized as Muslim scripture, it was communicated to an audience whose education was based on late-antique traditions—Judeo-Christian, Hellenic and Arabian.

She will explore how, when read as a movement within this triangle, the Qur’an turns out to be a Near Eastern–European text.

Muhammad copied Constantine who had copied Ardashir. Each implemented book or codex based monotheistic religions characterised by centralised state control at the precise moment they became the supreme military ruler of their respective empires: the Arabian, the Roman and the Persian.

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05-07-2011, 01:10 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Angelika Neuwirth Addresses the "Late Antique Qur'an" in a Lecture at the Institute for Advanced Study

05-07-2011, 02:23 PM	#3
avi Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Location: eastern North America Posts: 1,468	Thank you Toto, for the three links, all very interesting. The message I have taken away from these three links is perhaps not the one which Angelika Neuwirth intended: Without any reliable ancient manuscript evidence, all one can do, today, is speculate..... The oldest texts appear to be dated more than a century after the death of Mohammed..... I hope I err, here, but I doubt that scrutiny of the oldest extant manuscript will assist us in understanding the zeal of those willing to kill themselves and others. Ultimately, it is, in my view, not Arabic one must study, to understand Islam, but rather, Hebrew. It is, in my opinion, the practice of Judaism that explains the indoctrination of the young boys, bobbing their heads, as they recite the "holy" texts, seen with equal revulsion whether observing devout jews or muslims, at work--soon to become the next generation of terrorists. avi

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