southernhybrid

Using the above definitions, one certainly could make a good case that the god of the Bible is quite depraved, especially the OT god.

Since religion is a man made concept with man made gods, it's quite reasonable to accept that god would be just like the creatures that invented him. God, just like his creators is not always depraved. The Xian god has been created to include both depravity and goodness. I think it's interesting that the Biblical god is so naughty. You would think that humans would want to invent a god that only had our most positive traits. He would be far more believable that way, and far more lovable.

I think the Bahai god is a pretty nice dude. He seems much more tolerant, although that Muslim god is often very depraved. I think we atheists should try and insist that any newly designed gods should be nice ones.

As for me, I may not be perfect, but I'm far from depraved.

BadBadBad

I guess the problem I'm having is that depraved means to be under the influence of Satan. It's not sufficient to show bad, immoral behavior. To show depravity, it seems to me that you need to show the bad behavior is related to satanic influence. So it's not sufficient, to me, to say that God did evil things therefore he's depraved any more than it's sufficient to say there are evil men therefore they are depraved. Unless we could show that God is under the influence of Satan, and by definition he isn't, we can't really say he's depraved. That is unless, like I think you're saying, God is like man. Man is evil and depraved, therefore God must be depraved. Still though, the link to Satan is missing in this little circle.

That's an interesting concept of depraved. Man is sometimes under the influence of Satan. God is sometimes under the influence of Satan. How do you tell when you are or are not under the influence of Satan, especially when you account for God potentially being depraved?

That's another interesting concept. How can you be depraved and good?

When you add God to the mix, it really gets confusing. Evil is declared good simply because God does it. It's not evil to kill babies. It's ultimately just and good. If man does it without God, it's evil and it demonstrates total depravity and influence by Satan. Man creates a depraved God that is declared good reflecting their own depraved characteristics which they declare evil.

Well hopefully, that's what we're here to see. Kang would say you're depraved because you don't live up to the perfection of God, and that's a good thing.

@last

Where on earth did you get that from?
And where did Kang get this from.
Is the word depraved reserved for theists?
(Of course you have the right to say "when I use the word here I mean this...")

BadBadBad

Good question. Good question. I got my definition from the dictionary. What I saw in the dictionary is lots of synonyms that say evil. Just seems like they left out the word Satan, and I hardly see how they could have done that. I just added Satan back into the mix where he belongs. Here it is from the Merriam Webster dictionary online:

Deprave - to speak ill of, Malign. to make bad, corrrupt, especially to corrupt morally.

Malign - 1 a : evil in nature, influence, or effect : INJURIOUS b : MALIGNANT, VIRULENT
2 : having or showing intense often vicious ill will : MALEVOLENT
synonym see SINISTER
- ma·lign·ly adverb

If you follow the synonym links you get words like:

corrupt - 1 a : to become tainted or rotten b : to become morally debased
2 : to cause disintegration or ruin

Rot - 1 a : to become tainted or rotten b : to become morally debased
2 : to cause disintegration or ruin

Malign - 1 a : evil in nature, influence, or effect : INJURIOUS b : MALIGNANT, VIRULENT
2 : having or showing intense often vicious ill will : MALEVOLENT
synonym see SINISTER

Malignant - 1 a obsolete : MALCONTENT, DISAFFECTED b : evil in nature, influence, or effect : INJURIOUS c : passionately and relentlessly malevolent : aggressively malicious
2 : tending to produce death or deterioration <malignant malaria>; especially : tending to infiltrate, metastasize, and terminate fatally <malignant tumor>

Malcontent - a discontented person: a : one who bears a grudge from a sense of grievance or thwarted ambition b : one who is in active opposition to an established order or government : REBEL

Malevolent - 1 : having, showing, or arising from intense often vicious ill will, spite, or hatred
2 : productive of harm or evil

Sinister - 3 : singularly evil or productive of evil
4 a : of, relating to, or situated to the left or on the left side of something; especially : being or relating to the side of a heraldic shield at the left of the person bearing it b : of ill omen by reason of being on the left
5 : presaging ill fortune or trouble
6 : accompanied by or leading to disaster

Baleful - 1 : deadly or pernicious in influence
2 : foreboding evil : OMINOUS

So you can see that calling someone depraved is not really a good thing that is unless you want to change the meaning of the word. Since all these words are related to evil, you can't have evil without Satan so I think it was kind of negligent for Merriam to leave that out.

@last

Are you now suggesting that if I don't beleive in God then I can't have morals?
Actualy I think I (a non-believer) could even use the word evil (when it comes to cold blooded mass-murder and stuff like that) without implying the existence of Satan.

BadBadBad

Of course not, I am an atheist. The Christian concept of the depravity of man suggests that although you may follow Christianity's absolute morality, you as well as all Christians are intrinsically morally corrupt.

You could use it that way. It does have that secular usage, but you cannot deny the historical basis of the word evil relating literally to Satan.

@last

On depravity
Ok, if I had understood that it was The Christian concept of the depravity of man you meant then I would not have reacted.

On evil
Well you did say earlier
which I took to mean that evil has no secular usage. Sorry.
I also thought that it implied the existence of Satan.
Don't know about the historical basis so I won't deny it.

Chili

In Catholicism man is basically good and is therefore redeemable. Our sin nature is our second nature and therefore humans are basically good but must be redeemed to return to Eden as man-in-the-image-of-God.

Protestants claim that man is basically evil from which follows that man is not redeemable but must die in the state of sin.

The good thing about being depraved is that our second nature is earthly wherein we are human (as indicated by the prefix hu- which comes from humi-= earthly), and caring, and considerate, and loving, and esteemable, and charming, and so on and so on.

The bad thing is that the above attributes have opposites and must therefore be protected as social norms to be sought by everyone.

advancedatheist

The Web has vastly expanded the material available to the teen boy's sexual imagination, and many of the teen girls are allegedly easier now than they were when I was growing up in Oklahoma in the 1970's, despite all the abstinence propaganda. I get the impression that teen boys these days have more opportunities now for sexual adventures.

BadBadBad

I don't know if it's exposure peaking the imagination. I don't think it's perhaps, let's say, less than optimal abstience propaganda or increased opportunities. I just don't know what it could be!

Could it be

SATAN? :devil3: