Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Magus55 · 10-11-2003, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
I don't think God does know the future. Just a very good guesser.. That does not mean that God is not omniscient----just that that type of omniscience is impossible.

It is quite possible that given the necessary limitations of this universe, or any universe, knowledge of the future is impossible-----by any entity.

Certain and absolute knowledge of the future sounds like a fairy tale made up by man. --- That God would laugh at.

I can imagine God saying------- "Come on guys. That just can't be done. Get over it"

You know, if you are gonna call yourself "Christian", you should at least learn the basic concepts of Christian theology based on the Bible.

1Jo 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

CoffeeFiend · 10-11-2003, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
You know, if you are gonna call yourself "Christian", you should at least learn the basic concepts of Christian theology based on the Bible.

1Jo 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

I am no expert in Christian theology, but do things that haven't happened or been created yet belong to the set of "all things" ? If so, why ? In some cases the OT christian God seems to be unaware of the future, testing people's faith in him when challenged by Satan and all that.

Magus55 · 10-11-2003, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoffeeFiend
I am no expert in Christian theology, but do things that haven't happened or been created yet belong to the set of "all things" ? If so, why ? In some cases the OT christian God seems to be unaware of the future, testing people's faith in him when challenged by Satan and all that.

Yes, God knows all things, because He is eternal. The past, present, and future are all the present to God. The past and future, in essence don't exist to God because time has no meaning to Him unless He chooses to enter time.

And God is quite aware of the future in the OT. He just allows the people of the OT to be a part of His plan. Like when God asked where Adam was in the Garden. God knew very well where Adam was, but He wanted Adam to know God was looking for Him, and for Adam to seek Him out.

Mullibok · 10-11-2003, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Yes, God knows all things, because He is eternal. The past, present, and future are all the present to God. The past and future, in essence don't exist to God because time has no meaning to Him unless He chooses to enter time.

And God is quite aware of the future in the OT. He just allows the people of the OT to be a part of His plan. Like when God asked where Adam was in the Garden. God knew very well where Adam was, but He wanted Adam to know God was looking for Him, and for Adam to seek Him out.

Isn't this just an interpretation of the Bible that people like Rational BAC could choose to disagree with?

DBT · 10-13-2003, 05:02 AM

quote;
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Yes, God knows all things, because He is eternal. The past, present, and future are all the present to God. The past and future, in essence don't exist to God because time has no meaning to Him unless He chooses to enter time.
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So you are saying that for God the begining and ending all apeared in the instant of creation,God is still in the garden chasing Adam out and also sitting at the last judgment, everything you think you will do has already been done.
everyones fate was sealed in the moment of creation?

Secular Pinoy · 10-13-2003, 07:10 AM

Does the freewill argument (I think it's Free Will Defense) require uncaused free will? Or can the FWD work with Compatibilist Free Will? All the FWDs I've seen so far require free will to be uncaused (contracausal), but I'm not certain if all such defenses require it to be so. If the FWD can be reconciled with compatibilist free will, then there is probably no contradiction.

And some have tried to make a distinction between agent causation and event causation. Perhaps if FWD is incompatible with one yet compatible with the other, then probably there would also not be a contradiction.

DBT · 10-14-2003, 06:32 PM

quote;
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If the FWD can be reconciled with compatibilist free will, then there is probably no contradiction.

And some have tried to make a distinction between agent causation and event causation. Perhaps if FWD is incompatible with one yet compatible with the other, then probably there would also not be a contradiction
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Thats interesting,but I cant see it clearly, maybe you could give an example to clarify it a bit?

Howard · 10-14-2003, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Yes, God knows all things, because He is eternal. The past, present, and future are all the present to God. The past and future, in essence don't exist to God because time has no meaning to Him...

No wonder he's always late.

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10-13-2003, 05:02 AM	#15
DBT Contributor Join Date: May 2003 Location: ɹǝpunuʍop puɐן ǝɥʇ Posts: 17,906	quote; ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yes, God knows all things, because He is eternal. The past, present, and future are all the present to God. The past and future, in essence don't exist to God because time has no meaning to Him unless He chooses to enter time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ So you are saying that for God the begining and ending all apeared in the instant of creation,God is still in the garden chasing Adam out and also sitting at the last judgment, everything you think you will do has already been done. everyones fate was sealed in the moment of creation?

10-13-2003, 07:10 AM	#16
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	Does the freewill argument (I think it's Free Will Defense) require uncaused free will? Or can the FWD work with Compatibilist Free Will? All the FWDs I've seen so far require free will to be uncaused (contracausal), but I'm not certain if all such defenses require it to be so. If the FWD can be reconciled with compatibilist free will, then there is probably no contradiction. And some have tried to make a distinction between agent causation and event causation. Perhaps if FWD is incompatible with one yet compatible with the other, then probably there would also not be a contradiction.

10-14-2003, 06:32 PM	#17
DBT Contributor Join Date: May 2003 Location: ɹǝpunuʍop puɐן ǝɥʇ Posts: 17,906	quote; --------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the FWD can be reconciled with compatibilist free will, then there is probably no contradiction. And some have tried to make a distinction between agent causation and event causation. Perhaps if FWD is incompatible with one yet compatible with the other, then probably there would also not be a contradiction ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thats interesting,but I cant see it clearly, maybe you could give an example to clarify it a bit?

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