DinoStoned

And yet you seem so sure that your religion is the only Truth. If you do not deny the possibilities that other religions might be true, you cannot say that you have an unwavering faith in your god.


This is your answer to my statement that 'giving others what you toiled for does not mean you do not comprehend the value of your labours'?

Your specific line was :
Meaning that if man does not even understand the worth of his own works, he cannot know God. I replied that we do understand the value of our own works, and even so, we do not know God because there is no God to know.

Trade. I was talking about trade, which proves that we know the value of our own labours.
Anyway, when we die, our bodies are placed in the ground, or burnt, with the ashes scattered into the ocean or placed in an urn, or maybe our corpse will be put on top of a high tower for the buzzards to pick it clean.

Our vegetables come from the soil, and animals feed on vegetables. Of course, unless the vegetables are grown in hydrophonic farms, which negate the use of dirt and soil.

What's your point?

And I do not require any atheist spirit to maintain my strengthening and arguments for atheism. More power to me then... and you're falling back on the "God exists because we are talking about him" argument.


And yet earlier you say that:

By degrading the Buddha to the status of an idol, I am sure you are blaspheming the Buddhist religion.



Yet another example of blaspheming other religions.

Oh, so impact and effect is taken as the proof for truth now? Hitler did some terrible things that no one will forget for years to come, but were his ideologies the truth?
On the other hand, the Arab-Muslim empire, during its golden years, provided some of the finest scientists and philosophers the world has ever known, and the knowledge that they discovered was probably the catalyst for the European Rennaisance (opinion, but you can't disagree that the Muslims were at the forefront of science and technology in that period). Is their religion the true one?

DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR

I see you are re-reading what was actually posted <removed> However when I said impossible it was asking how could their be anything other than Christ-believing Christian, Christians are only allowed to believe in Christ.
You responded with:

Which is actually the only thing you have posted that makes sense! But then later on you posted:

So now you want me to actually seek help via the internet? No thanks, a majority of the people on this forum get peeved enough at me for my Moronic posts, trying to give me advice and critiques that are not needed, except through their rose colored veiw of the "harsh reality" of life. I say to much self-indulgence results in shattered lives but I am posting this on the internet were hypocrisy reigns! A bunch of drunken, stoner newbies in the game of life spouting out their opinions on how I should behave! I say our country is at war! Right or wrong it is your country, take arms young freedom loving children and take your knowledge to the real fight. Show us you really know what life is really about! The world has enough preachers and artists, what we need is garbagemen! Yes it may be my generations garbage but it is your turn to take it out [ a small favor to ask IMO for wiping your butts and snotty noses and teaching you to tie your boots!]. Do not be afraid my children for you have your Gods and your HIGH, HIGH, HIGH intelligence to see you through the battle, beat your keyboard into a Nuclear Missile. Fire at will and if you get confused, pretend they are all Will. If you want to cry, just move along, cause you are going to die, so DIE WITH YOUR BOOTS ON! Or do you have issues with having your head shaved, and living in close quarters with memebers of the same sex? Don't ask, Don't tell!




There is evidence that Rabbi was re-written from rabbit, the "T" was omitted for obvious reasons, Elmer Fudd shows this in the Bugs Bunny cartoon when he sings kill the Wabbit, You have more than likely only seen the sanitized version in the original Elmer nails Bugs to a cross. Everyone had a part in killing Jesus, I get peeved when people try to just blame the Romans, or the jews, ect. Yes even Strong Atheists [if their really are such creatures] had their part in killing Jesus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visionary7 Do not call anyone Teacher, for only you have one Teacher, who is the Christ

Those who can do. Those who can't teach, or sit on their brains dreaming they will be as great as their teachers tell them they'll be. [This is obviously a scam to get more of mom&dads money for tuition, or worse my tax money!]
NOT ME! < Does best to imitate Curly Q> NYUK-NYUK!

<removed>

Any misspelling and/or false definitions in the above posts are of fault of DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR, he doesn't have time to waste with spell checkers or dicktionaries and is way to busy actually producing art, and not sitting around on his ass dreaming.

mongrel

Let's avoid insulting comments here, people, lest this thread wind up locked.

mongrel
~E~ mod.

chapka

That depends. In some cultures they're buried, in some burned, in some placed in running water or in the ocean, in some it's a combination. Some people's bodies are shot into space in satellites. Some people's bodies are never found.

Mine (at least the ones that don't come from my family farm) mostly come from FreshDirect. Ultimately, they come from farms, where the animals are raised or the plants are grown.

I've answered your questions. Now please answer mine. You say:

This is basically what you said before. When I raised problems with this, you ignored it. So I'll try again.

First of all, you announce that you do not denigrate other religions, but call Buddhism "Idolatry." Inconsistent though this may be, it is irrelevant to your point, which is that if the Christian God didn't exist, Christians wouldn't exist either. You claim that Buddhism is a false teaching, but can you deny that Buddhists exist?

Furthermore, you have yet to address my rebuttal of your claim that "if there was no god, there's no logical reason to be talking about a god." I'll repost for your convenience:

-----

Do you believe in White Power and the Master Race? If not, how can you explain the fact that people sometimes come onto totally unrelated message boards and talk about these things? After all, isn't it logically reasonable that if there were no Master Race, white supremacists and black supremacists wouldn't be arguing about the characteristics of the Master Race?

Please note that I'm not implying that you, yourself, are a racist. But I fail to see how any argument you may make against my proposition doesn't also apply to your own.

If you want to see how your argument is not "logically reasonable," just reduce it to a syllogism. You've said:

Quote:
It is logically reasonable that my revelation of that if there was no God, we would not be talking about God..


Now, I assume that what you meant to say was "It is logically reasonable that if there were no god, we would not be talking about god."

You've given us two parts of a syllogism here:

P1: We are talking about God

and

C1: Therefore, God exists

By themselves, these two things don't form a syllogism. This doesn't mean that your statement is right or wrong, just that it has a suppressed premise. Your critics have taken the legitimate logical step of filling in the simplest possible premise, which is:

P2: People only talk about things that exist

The problem is that this premise is false, as the leprechaun example shows. Again, that doesn't mean your statement is false; it just means that in order to prove it, you need to state your suppressed premise(s).

Remember, you've already been given several counterexamples: leprechauns, the Master Race, and Islam. Assuming you don't believe in any of these things, you need to come up with a premise that does not apply to these counterexamples.

If you have questions about the requirements of formal logical reasoning, feel free to post or PM me. But if you can't fulfill these requirements, I hope you'll admit that your argument is not, in fact, logically reasonable.

-----

Please address this before you post this statement again.

Visionary7

Do not be afraid of them, you must speak my words to them whether listen they fail to listen, for they are a rebellious house.

He catches the wise in their
craftiness.


When I say Where is the wise man? where is the scholar?

One says "Go to a university and find wise men", they will not be able to supply me a decent answer. The bible seems to be interpreted two ways.. It is truth to the believer, to the nonbeliever it is a fable.

If I come and tell you about these things, and you actively reject what I try propose and blaspheme my God, I do not appreciate it.

There is none good but God only, Personally I'm scared of God because I feel I know him. I have felt judgement passing through me before, and I know satan.

Am I crazy? nah.. Have I prayed in sweats and spiritual agony before? certainly, so if one does not step up to God and go through this process, they cannot understand God.

As of now, if feels there is a veil cloaking the eyes of the infidels, my best guess is that many years were spent in masquerading and rejection of God.

You think your ways are correct and have a moral ground and foundation, I tell you it is not.

You reap what you sow, God cannot be mocked.

One is so eager to get into an intellectual and brainy argument on worldly wisdom, but I tell none of it matters. I'm speaking from my own real experiences, I cannot look in the mirror everyday convinced that there is no God. That would be denying me as a person. I thank God everyday for crisp clean water and daily bread. I could not be like that if I do not suffer for his cause.

How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn when he is with them? the time is coming when bridegroom will be taken from them and they will fast.

Visionary7

Chapka are you trying to trap me in wordly wisdom?

1. We talk about God because God exists.

2. We would not be intriniscally contemplating God if he did not somehow manage procreate himself over the course of human history.

3. You cannot deny these facts on the basis of some type of debate principle or methodology, it's does not stand up to God's wisdom.

mongrel

An old saying comes to mind- "Be careful what you wish for..."

V7, you came here and challenged us to refute your claims. Now you label those refutations and rejection of your claims as blasphemous, and claim you don't appreciate it.

The thing is, mere witnessing and preaching will not win you any converts here. To do that, you'll need to provide evidence that your claims are correct. If you cannot do that, your claims will be treated the same as any other unsubstantiated, extraordinary claims, and therefore be rejected. Bible verses will not do the trick, either, as that book has well and truly been shown to be un unreliable source filled with contradictions and falsehoods.

We've already shown this to be a logical fallacy, but let me reiterate.

Many, many people talk about leprechauns, the Loch Ness Monster, the Yeti, Bigfoot, the Yowie, ETs, ghosts, fairies, astral travel, telekinesis, remote viewing, etc.- does that mean they must all be true?

Magdlyn

Yes, please.

But I do not hold high hopes.

blt to go

I might argue that it is more likely that these things ARE true. At least more true than god.

See, when these things are mentioned, we all have a very similar mental image of what you are talking about:

Say "leprechaun" and immediately the image of a small man with whiskers, a pipe, green knickers and tuxedo, hat and clover jumps to mind. We all KNOW about the pot of gold, that they are tricksters, etc.

Say "Loch Ness Monster" and immediately the image of a Brontosaurus with its neck and back showing is in our mind. there is little debate of the description.

Same with your other examples (although I do not know what a 'Yowie" is )

It may be argued that the "universal" concept of such entities would demonstrate that they exist.

But mention the word "god" in the past 5000 years, and you have no concept whatsoever what that means. Anything from Assyrian, to Babylonian, Egyptian, Judean, Norse, Greek, Roman, Christian, Muslim, Indian, Native American, Aztec, etc. etc. etc.

In fact you have to look at the context, and even THEN it is not that limiting. How many times have we seen, "well, I am a christian, but I do not believe in inerrancy/omni-benevolance/hell/Jesus is God/etc.?" So saying "christian" is becoming less and less clear as to what that person's "god" means.

If there WAS one god, and we are all "intrinsically contemplating" this one god, and he was the author or creation, wouldn't we all have similar contemplations? At LEAST as similar as our contemplations of leprechauns, yetis and yowies.

chapka

No, I'm trying to have a discussion. Here's what a discussion is NOT.

You: "Only animals have four legs"
Me: "What about tables? Tables have four legs."
You: "Only animals have four legs"
Me: "Chairs, too. Chairs have four legs."
You: "Only animals have four legs"

To be serious: if you have no intention of debating, but can only assert that God exists because you think so, then please go away. Discussion of religion is welcome on this board, as is all other discussion. Preaching is not.

I'll give you one more chance to actually respond to an argument instead of ignoring it.

How would you respond to this argument:

"Whites are superior to blacks, otherwise the philosophy of White Ppwer would never have arisen. You cannot deny this on the basis of arguments, because the superiority of whites is innate and cannot be denied."

How is your argument any more persuasive than this one? Do you not see that exactly the argument you're making can be used to justify not only your own conception of god, but any other religion, belief system, or point of view?

I'm not talking about a "debate principle or methodology;" I'm talking about simple logic and common sense. If I told you, "The word 'Allah' has five letters, therefore Islam is true," would you convert? Of course not. You wouldn't even consider it, because the argument doesn't make sense. Neither does yours. Your entire argument is, "God exists because I said so." And that carries very little weight. All it proves is that an idea you call God exists in your mind.

If you're not interested in a real discussion, please shut up and go away. There are enough preachers on street corners that we don't particularly need another one here.