Cynthia of Syracuse

There are too many personal barbs being exchanged. Please confine the discussion to addressing the claims presented.

muTron the homeless

I'm not buying the mental illness claim. I've seen theists try to argue that card against atheists with the lame "Atheists suffer from a hatred of their earthly fathers which translates to rebellion against their heavenly father...with proper couseling all will be well"




Religious belief seems a bit more complex to me than to throw it off as equivalent to taking prozac for depression.

Similarly, I am curious about the Religion = Santa for adults line of thinking. Two thoughts that pop in my head.

1) Is this in regards to all theism or only Xianity
(i know one said earlier that Deism would also be a mental illness so I am guessing yes...)

2) Are we really claiming that the tens of thousands of years old tradition of religious belief spawned from pre-historic humans and continues to this day, a tradition that mind you has fueled some of the most horrible actions against humanity and also some of her greatest triumphs, is really an intellectually equivalent myth to Santa Clause, and therefore comparable? Or is this the sort of claim one would make to piss off a Fundy all the while not really taking it very seriously?

Jagella

I couldn’t have said it better! Is it not what I was calling for?

Jagella

jonesg

"the antiquated notions of gods and miracles have come under the scrutiny of modern science. "

Hahahah, no it hasn't. As if "scientists" are all atheists or would waste their time using science to disprove that which you claim doesn't exist.
You need to get out more and enjoy life.

"if a person says he believes his father is some invisible ghost in the sky somewhere, then we might well deem that person as insane. However, when the same claim is made in a religious context, we laud that person as “a man of faith.�? What’s the difference? "

Probably none, except no-one outside atheism considers religious belief insane . Ask a shrink.

"I submit that religion may well be a mental illness."
I could make a case for the opposite, spiritual faith produces men of maturity, courage and emotional stability. (fundamentalists excluded though!)

It sounds you've been had, first by religion, now by the absence of faith.
Both those extremes suffer from one common denominator, they both place over-reliance on man. Religion is only about spirituality. True spirituality is a direct relationship between you and God, those who would say you need someone as a go between are charlatans.

It would do you well to understand that religion is about the fellowship of like minded believers, its human gathering. Its group dynamics.
It is human powered and has no power of its own beyond human.
Being human based, its going to have all the imperfections we all have, seeking God in religion is always going to be tricky,
it is always better to meet God alone.

I used to lie in bed in the middle of the night and ask myself "what the F is wrong with me", I was driven away from God by idiotic pious religious phonies, God is what was missing in my state of being.
The emptyness was my cosmic loneliness and my loneliness was my anguish at not being able to find proof for God.
I asked God to take all that emptyness and fear away, and God did a number on me.

jonesg

"Atheists suffer from a hatred of their earthly fathers which translates to rebellion against their heavenly father...with proper couseling all will be well"

That almost describes me, but I didn't hate my dad, he just failed in a human way, proper counseling (shrink) didn't help, I turned to God. I don't consider christian counseling to be competent in these areas.
For them to throw those claims in anyones face is like ice water on the back, its not going to help anyone. Even if, as in my case, it was true, a person must find their way to the truth methodically, not have it used as a weapon against them.

If you set aside the fundamentalists who are in conflict with reality, the majority of the population places their reliance on something Greater than they, they enjoy peace of mind , that is they don't drive themselves to distraction pondering the imponderables. Generally, it can be said that society functions smoothly.

jonesg

Did God command Stalin to murder ?how many millions?
Mao was instructed by God ?, what was it , a mere 40 or 60 million?
Whats 20 million here and there.

Looks like theres no shortage of dirt to spread around when using the broad brush of intolerance.

The problem is it doesn't allow for the good that has been done by religion or non believers alike.
If you cannot recall anything good religion has done, then you are in need of some education in that area.

Being openminded isn't a one way street.

sharon45

Yes, that may be true, but it still does nothing to show of whether some kind of god exists or not. If it weren't for some theists being so insistent, it wouldn't really matter either way until it is truly known.

I can try to answer that in part if I may.

Jagella said religion may well be a mental illness, and not that theists are mentally ill. Theists and religion are obviously two different things.

jonesg

Seeing as religion is about the fellowship of believers, it must evidence human traits and that includes human faults. Those faults are just as evident among any group of humans, atheists have the very same shortcomings. Believers and non believers are all capable of stupidity, ignorance, intolerance, fear,anger, belligerance ...and so on.

Both are capable of instability and insanity.
Both have the same capacity for good.
Theres a certain socially acceptable form of insanity, where I grew up the old folks would say "there's none so queer as folk".

sharon45

What you are asking about was done by supposed atheists with god's own blessing,(consult Romans 1-7), but that is hardly the real big picture I am always most interested in.

If there is really a god, he has tortured and murdered 10s of billions. It matters not of whether he himself instructed or forced them, all of these deaths were oversaw and allowed to happen by him, because he made up the rules of life afterall.

sharon45

Why would anyone afterall while psychiatry is modern in compare with religions' long history and that there are literally billions of the religious? What really can anyone do to control this amount with so few?

One step forward, followed by two steps back.

If you think this statement is any much more than your own general personal opinion, then you are the charlatan instead.

And once again with this statement.

Or, in reality, you believe all of this, but nothing more.

I could easily put forth, you did the 'number' on yourself. You finally started to try to gain control over yourself using god as an excuss, because you feared you couldn't handle it all on your own. It doesn't matter what I think, it will not be shown either way.