Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Aerik Von · 08-23-2003, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Kirby
This is impossible. The fragments p18 and p24 contain parts of Revelation and date to the third or fourth century. Uncials 0169 and 0207 are from Revelation and date to the fourth century. Codex Sinaiticus contains Revelation. P. Chester Beatty III, p47, has fragments of Revelation and dates to the third century. More importantly, the Revelation of John was clearly known to Justin Martyr, Irenaeus of Lyons, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen, Eusebius, and Didymus. This is all before the alleged date of 395 CE supposedly found by Morozov.

best,
Peter Kirby

You too

!

Dargo · 08-24-2003, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SiliconWolf
That's actually the reason I brought this up. Many Christians I know believe that the revelations continue to this day, which indicates belief that God is still revealing the plan.

TV evangelists seem to be the ones who are most privy to god's revelations. Conveniently, god seems to want us to give them all of our money.

never been there · 08-24-2003, 11:16 AM

I realize the Bible ends with Revelations for Christians, since everything between then and Armageddon is just filler, but there's no reason for Jews to see it that way. Their history continues.

In a way, it's a pity they decided to drop the books of Maccabees. It set the bar really too high for future additions. If I understand correctly, the events of Maccabees, while inspiring (and commemorated at Hanukkah), have too much human initiative and not enough divine intervention.

I would think there's a case to be made for two books of Diaspora (one covering the period from 30 CE to about 110 CE - the raw materials are in Josephus - and another of the following experiences in Europe and the Arab world, and, of course, the book of the Shoah.

Christians have long tried to keep their canonical OT list consistent with the Jewish canon. A few new books in the OT would present them with a sticky little problem.

mark9950 · 08-25-2003, 09:51 PM

I read these two books and they are books that explains many unexplained anomolies in the bible such as the "Sons of God" that genesis speaks of.

The Sons of God that Genesis speaks of are the stars which are antromorphic demi-gods alive beings that come down to earth.

This would explain that jesus believed that the stars do fall to the earth.

If you read the apocrapha and think of the bible you will realize that it al makes sense from the mythocal point of view.

Doctor X · 08-25-2003, 11:58 PM

Aerik Von:

You do me too much honor.

mark:

Aaaaaa . . . um . . . the "sons of the gods" [bene elohim--Ed.] occurs in Genesis and it not refered to by Junior in the NT texts that I am aware of.

In Genesis, it is your basic "god mates with da wimmenfolk" story and the offspring are "heroes" and "men of renown."

It would be much, much later before someone would try to make these "fallen angels." Now, the actual Genesis text does not really suggest meteors . . . or is it meteorites? . . . where is my Bad Astronomer . . .

Quote:

When men began to multiply on the face of the ground and daughters were born to them, the sons of the gods [bene elohim--Ed.] saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took to wife such of them as they chose. . . . The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of the gods came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.

Gen 6:1-4

--J.D.

mark9950 · 08-28-2003, 02:13 AM

After reading about the so called non inspired texts there seems to be many connections between the bible and non-inspired texts.

That connection is the explanation that it gives when there is an unexplainable gap in understanding.

This infamous site closes the gaps on understanding that the bible does not explain(you probably have seen it many times before)

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

And as the site states that the hebrew God is ONLY for the hebrews to worship.Not anyone else.

There is no idolatry for anyone non hebrew.

08-25-2003, 09:51 PM	#14
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	Also the book of enoch and jasher I read these two books and they are books that explains many unexplained anomolies in the bible such as the "Sons of God" that genesis speaks of. The Sons of God that Genesis speaks of are the stars which are antromorphic demi-gods alive beings that come down to earth. This would explain that jesus believed that the stars do fall to the earth. If you read the apocrapha and think of the bible you will realize that it al makes sense from the mythocal point of view.

08-28-2003, 02:13 AM	#16
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	Yes Dr. X After reading about the so called non inspired texts there seems to be many connections between the bible and non-inspired texts. That connection is the explanation that it gives when there is an unexplainable gap in understanding. This infamous site closes the gaps on understanding that the bible does not explain(you probably have seen it many times before) http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm And as the site states that the hebrew God is ONLY for the hebrews to worship.Not anyone else. There is no idolatry for anyone non hebrew.

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08-24-2003, 11:16 AM	#13
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	I realize the Bible ends with Revelations for Christians, since everything between then and Armageddon is just filler, but there's no reason for Jews to see it that way. Their history continues. In a way, it's a pity they decided to drop the books of Maccabees. It set the bar really too high for future additions. If I understand correctly, the events of Maccabees, while inspiring (and commemorated at Hanukkah), have too much human initiative and not enough divine intervention. I would think there's a case to be made for two books of Diaspora (one covering the period from 30 CE to about 110 CE - the raw materials are in Josephus - and another of the following experiences in Europe and the Arab world, and, of course, the book of the Shoah. Christians have long tried to keep their canonical OT list consistent with the Jewish canon. A few new books in the OT would present them with a sticky little problem.

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