Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 10-19-2008, 01:04 PM

Maxwell-Stuart discusses epode 5 and to summarise we understand witches et al through medieval and early modern constructs.

Quote:

So translating the various Greek and Roman words for magicians, diviners, necromancers and so forth as "witch" is both misleading and inaccurate

p12

As Dante changed our understanding of hell, so has Del Rio our understanding of these fauna and flora.

This is either part of a woman's beauty table or a temple ritual.

I wonder if christ is a result of a misunderstanding about annointing. ...

Clivedurdle · 10-19-2008, 01:08 PM

Referring to the discussion about two women in another thread, Horace in Satires 1 8 discusses how the god Priapus was a wooden statue in a graveyard watching two old necromaners sacrificing a black lamb....

Clivedurdle · 10-19-2008, 01:10 PM

On Eusebius, one of the defining features of xianity is this formalising of good and evil. Looking in detail at that process may be illuminating, especially of timelines.

gurugeorge · 10-20-2008, 09:04 AM

Interesting find. I favour Clive's early Chanel

But since we know that there was some interchangeability between Christos and Chrestus amongst that period of Christians anyway, the inscription could refer to either a mythical or a historical Jesus even if it's Chrestos (which it sure looks like to me).

I would point out, though, that association of Christ as a magician does tie in with that bit of early archaeological fresco evidence that depicts Christ looking a bit like a youthful Greek magician (the pictures are in some thread from a while back).

mountainman · 10-21-2008, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurugeorge

Interesting find. I favour Clive's early Chanel

But since we know that there was some interchangeability between Christos and Chrestus amongst that period of Christians anyway, the inscription could refer to either a mythical or a historical Jesus even if it's Chrestos (which it sure looks like to me).

I would point out, though, that association of Christ as a magician does tie in with that bit of early archaeological fresco evidence that depicts Christ looking a bit like a youthful Greek magician (the pictures are in some thread from a while back).

Dear gurugeorge,

What about the association between chrestos and Asclepius provided by Pontius Pilate ---- channelled in the fourth century?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gNICODEMUS

Pilate saith:
And what things are they that he doeth, and would destroy the law?

The Jews say:
We have a law that we should not heal any man on the sabbath: but this man of his evil deeds hath healed the lame and the bent, the withered and the blind and the paralytic, the dumb and them that were possessed, on the sabbath day!

Pilate saith unto them:
By what evil deeds?

They say unto him:
He is a sorcerer, and by Beelzebub the prince of the devils he casteth out devils, and they are all subject unto him.

Pilate saith unto them:
This is not to cast out devils by an unclean spirit, but by the god Asclepius.

What has anyone got to say about that?

I insist that someone needs to debate me on the issue of associating the pseudo-named author Lucius Charinus with the historical figure of Arius of Alexandria. Someone was writing anti-canonical burlesques in the fourth century (when is the Gospel of Nicodemus dated?), putting strange words into the mouth of Pontius Pilate.

Best wishes,

Pete

Toto · 10-21-2008, 11:35 AM

From your link:

Quote:

The first part of the book [Gospel of Nicodemas], containing the story of the Passion and Resurrection, is not earlier than the fourth century. Its object in the main is to furnish irrefragable testimony to the resurrection.

It seems unlikely that this throws any light on a first century bowl that doesn't use the words Christ or Jesus.

Clivedurdle · 10-21-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Many of these people were clients in the advertising business -- people seeking assistance in promoting their goods and services. Just as today, the area with the greatest diversity of clients was consumer goods -- products for mass consumption such as food, clothing, and health and beauty aids. A considerable amount of activity went into the manufacturing, importing, and selling of such consumer goods. As part of that activity, a complex advertising business flourished. While we cannot say for sure, it is likely that the Roman Empire was the cradle of advertising and marketing, where many of the practices of advertising as we know them now were developed.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...i_4806053/pg_1

mountainman · 10-21-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

From your link:

Quote:

The first part of the book [Gospel of Nicodemas], containing the story of the Passion and Resurrection, is not earlier than the fourth century. Its object in the main is to furnish .

It seems unlikely that this throws any light on a first century bowl that doesn't use the words Christ or Jesus.

Dear Toto,

We have here a new testament apochryphal commission narrative concerning the early christian church and its transcendental apostolic historicity known to have been wrtten in the fourth century. (Along with the other two C14 dated fourth century apochryphal NT texts. The narrative here, among alot of other very very strange things, puts the following words into the mount of Pontius Pilate:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gNicodemus

They say unto him:
He is a sorcerer, and by Beelzebub the prince of the devils he casteth out devils, and they are all subject unto him.

Pilate saith unto them:
This is not to cast out devils by an unclean spirit, but by the god Asclepius.

The main objective of this, despite the blind assertions by christian conjecturalists that this represents an "irrefragable testimony to the resurrection", is that we have here a fourth century author satirising the canon. For God's sake Toto, the text tells us that a number people were resurrected alongside Jesus. It is designed to be humorous. Cant anyone see the joke?

Did in fact Jesus cure by the power of Asclepius?

Best wishes

Pete

Clivedurdle · 10-22-2008, 03:01 PM

Another theory on the origin of xianity!

The cross was an advertising symbol of an early perfumers or annointers, when the firm went bust its real roots got forgotten and some wonderful stories about a wondrous annointer were made up!

Explains baptism - got to be clean, I'll work out bread and wine later - I know, the equivalent of tuppaware parties, everyone washed, dressed up, ate together - lamb very important.

This was on an early cooperative business model - sharing the takings out. Explains washing feet in costly oil story.

Feeding five thousand also part of it - first celebrity cook!

Jesus as the ancient equivalent of Jean Paul Gautier and Gordon Ramsay?

ChuckE99 · 10-23-2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Another theory on the origin of xianity!

The cross was an advertising symbol of an early perfumers or annointers, when the firm went bust its real roots got forgotten and some wonderful stories about a wondrous annointer were made up!

Explains baptism - got to be clean, I'll work out bread and wine later - I know, the equivalent of tuppaware parties, everyone washed, dressed up, ate together - lamb very important.

This was on an early cooperative business model - sharing the takings out. Explains washing feet in costly oil story.

Feeding five thousand also part of it - first celebrity cook!

Jesus as the ancient equivalent of Jean Paul Gautier and Gordon Ramsay?

Why not? That's how we got Santa Claus.

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10-19-2008, 01:08 PM	#22
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Referring to the discussion about two women in another thread, Horace in Satires 1 8 discusses how the god Priapus was a wooden statue in a graveyard watching two old necromaners sacrificing a black lamb....

10-19-2008, 01:10 PM	#23
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	On Eusebius, one of the defining features of xianity is this formalising of good and evil. Looking in detail at that process may be illuminating, especially of timelines.

10-20-2008, 09:04 AM	#24
gurugeorge Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,210	Interesting find. I favour Clive's early Chanel But since we know that there was some interchangeability between Christos and Chrestus amongst that period of Christians anyway, the inscription could refer to either a mythical or a historical Jesus even if it's Chrestos (which it sure looks like to me). I would point out, though, that association of Christ as a magician does tie in with that bit of early archaeological fresco evidence that depicts Christ looking a bit like a youthful Greek magician (the pictures are in some thread from a while back).

10-22-2008, 03:01 PM	#29
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Another theory on the origin of xianity! The cross was an advertising symbol of an early perfumers or annointers, when the firm went bust its real roots got forgotten and some wonderful stories about a wondrous annointer were made up! Explains baptism - got to be clean, I'll work out bread and wine later - I know, the equivalent of tuppaware parties, everyone washed, dressed up, ate together - lamb very important. This was on an early cooperative business model - sharing the takings out. Explains washing feet in costly oil story. Feeding five thousand also part of it - first celebrity cook! Jesus as the ancient equivalent of Jean Paul Gautier and Gordon Ramsay?

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