Freethought & Rationalism Archive

TruthPrevails · 11-17-2008, 07:23 AM

Quote:

MÜNSTER, Germany -- Muhammad Sven Kalisch, a Muslim convert and Germany's first professor of Islamic theology, fasts during the Muslim holy month, doesn't like to shake hands with Muslim women and has spent years studying Islamic scripture. Islam, he says, guides his life.

So it came as something of a surprise when Prof. Kalisch announced the fruit of his theological research. His conclusion: The Prophet Muhammad probably never existed.

Muslims, not surprisingly, are outraged. Even Danish cartoonists who triggered global protests a couple of years ago didn't portray the Prophet as fictional. German police, worried about a violent backlash, told the professor to move his religious-studies center to more-secure premises.

For more read at:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1226...eTabs_comments

Clivedurdle · 11-17-2008, 07:36 AM

I wonder if he reads here...

http://www.freeratio.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=182689

Tom Sawyer · 11-17-2008, 01:59 PM

Ohs nos.

What's the point of engaging in serious academic thought about a subject if the researchers don't even make sure that their results correspond with the preconceived notions of intransigent ideologues?

And once again, the main reaction is the worry that Muslims will riot and make death threats as a results. It's odd that a religion of peace has that happen so often.

show_no_mercy · 11-17-2008, 02:34 PM

I predict that he'll be beheaded by the end of the week. Islam is the religion of peace, after all. Piece by piece.

arricchio · 11-17-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthPrevails

Quote:

MÜNSTER, Germany -- Muhammad Sven Kalisch, a Muslim convert and Germany's first professor of Islamic theology, fasts during the Muslim holy month, doesn't like to shake hands with Muslim women and has spent years studying Islamic scripture. Islam, he says, guides his life.

So it came as something of a surprise when Prof. Kalisch announced the fruit of his theological research. His conclusion: The Prophet Muhammad probably never existed.

Muslims, not surprisingly, are outraged. Even Danish cartoonists who triggered global protests a couple of years ago didn't portray the Prophet as fictional. German police, worried about a violent backlash, told the professor to move his religious-studies center to more-secure premises.

For more read at:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1226...eTabs_comments

Cue rioting scenes in 3.....2....1....

kiwimac · 11-17-2008, 09:10 PM

Interesting ideas. I'd need to study the texts he is working from in more detail. Of course, I would first need to improve my German and probably my Arabic.

Kosh3 · 11-18-2008, 12:15 AM

Wow.

TheRealityOfMan · 11-18-2008, 02:07 AM

I heard from this guy before I think he was saying something interesting about how the language of the Qu'ran. The program I was watching then switched to a British Muslim scholar who labelled his theories as wild conjecture.

Didymus · 11-18-2008, 08:07 PM

Is it an insult to Muhammed to think - or even claim - he didn't exist? Of course not; you can't insult someone who never existed. Surely those rioters and beheaders will soon realize that they have no case against Muhammad Sven Kalisch.

That only applies to the rioters and beheaders who think rationally, of course. ;

MSK himself may even wish to reconsider his choice of a first name. Or his entire name, for that matter. Under the circumstances, he might consider changing it to something less controversial like Osama bin Laden, Idi Amin or George Bush.

Roger Pearse · 11-19-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthPrevails

Quote:

MÜNSTER, Germany -- Muhammad Sven Kalisch, a Muslim convert and Germany's first professor of Islamic theology, fasts during the Muslim holy month, doesn't like to shake hands with Muslim women and has spent years studying Islamic scripture. Islam, he says, guides his life.

So it came as something of a surprise when Prof. Kalisch announced the fruit of his theological research. His conclusion: The Prophet Muhammad probably never existed.

This happens from time to time. You get 'Moslem' members of the chattering classes observe how much enjoyment and personal profit can be got out of baiting the Christians, running TV series mocking their beliefs at major festivals, etc. They feel left out of the gravy train, and try to do the same on Islam. This is what Rushdie did, and presumably this chap is the same.

Like Rushie, he's forgotten that Islam is not a peaceful and innocuous minority.

The consequent violence then leaves the liberal establishment with a dilemma. Do they continue to champion Islam as part of their anti-Christian policies (mainly because of "do not commit adultery"), even though it is their own class that is under attack; or do they put their own interests first and attack Islam (while trying to minimise the damage to their policy of promoting it). In the Rushdie case they did the latter. Probably the same will happen here.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

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11-17-2008, 07:36 AM	#2
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	I wonder if he reads here... http://www.freeratio.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=182689

11-17-2008, 01:59 PM	#3
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	Ohs nos. What's the point of engaging in serious academic thought about a subject if the researchers don't even make sure that their results correspond with the preconceived notions of intransigent ideologues? And once again, the main reaction is the worry that Muslims will riot and make death threats as a results. It's odd that a religion of peace has that happen so often.

11-17-2008, 02:34 PM	#4
show_no_mercy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dancing Posts: 9,940	I predict that he'll be beheaded by the end of the week. Islam is the religion of peace, after all. Piece by piece.

11-17-2008, 09:10 PM	#6
kiwimac Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Mayfield, NZ Posts: 1,407	Interesting ideas. I'd need to study the texts he is working from in more detail. Of course, I would first need to improve my German and probably my Arabic.

11-18-2008, 12:15 AM	#7
Kosh3 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: zero point Posts: 2,004	Wow.

11-18-2008, 02:07 AM	#8
TheRealityOfMan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Osaka / London Posts: 1,993	I heard from this guy before I think he was saying something interesting about how the language of the Qu'ran. The program I was watching then switched to a British Muslim scholar who labelled his theories as wild conjecture.

11-18-2008, 08:07 PM	#9
Didymus Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 416	Is it an insult to Muhammed to think - or even claim - he didn't exist? Of course not; you can't insult someone who never existed. Surely those rioters and beheaders will soon realize that they have no case against Muhammad Sven Kalisch. That only applies to the rioters and beheaders who think rationally, of course. ; MSK himself may even wish to reconsider his choice of a first name. Or his entire name, for that matter. Under the circumstances, he might consider changing it to something less controversial like Osama bin Laden, Idi Amin or George Bush.

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