Toto

Why do you think that you have given us an idea of Jesus that is different from what we have heard before, or shone any different light on what we have heard?

Steven Carr

A much better subject.

I know that there was not a global flood, and that mentall illness is not caused by demon possession.

How did I manage to become wiser than Jesus? Is it because of the improvements in education in the last 2,000 years?

DMB

When discussing the wit and wisdom of Jesus (assuming he existed) we do have to consder the reliability of the sources. In this age of more or less instant TV we are quite used to assessing the wit and wisdom of people like President George W. Bush directly. But when you are dealing with Jesus, you have to consider how things got recorded in an age before mass communications, before printing and before mass literacy.

The proceedings of the British Parliament are recorded in a publication called Hansard. (How this came about is quite an interesting story, but irrelevant here.) If you read Hansard, you get the impression of a fairly dignified assembly, where speakers are witty, erudite and articulate. There are reported reactions from time to time: "(Laughter)" "(Cries of 'Oh!)" and so on, but they all sound fairly controlled. For a long time this was the only source of information for most of us about the goings on in Parliament. And then they put it on TV...and we all could see what a knockabout place it was and what schoolboyish behaviour was to be found.

When people write things down after the event, even if they are trying to be totally accurate (not always the case), they do tend to clean things up and improve on the original. I don't think that there is anyone who followed Jesus round noting down everything he said, as Boswell did for Johnson, so the best you can get from the gospels is recollection, sometimes long afterwards.

Not_Registered

Well I must not be speaking to you, huh Toto. You have a mouse. If you've heard it all before close the window and be about your merry way. As for the us for which you speak on behalf. Clearly you have polled each and every member of this us and know what each and every member of this us has or hasn't heard previously and how each and every member of this us has or hasn't perceived, or seen in a different light, for themselves. Well then your wisdom also ceases to amaze me....or is it never ceases.

Just curious. I'm not going to point figures or make comments about, but I'm just curious to know Stevo, because I don't want to put words into your mouth. So, are you saying that Jesus was a fool? If not, then on what level, intellectually for lack of a better word, do you perceive Him to be (i.e fool, imbecile, average Joe, genius, mis or uneducated, having Not_Registered-like incompetence, etc.)

Sven

Did you notice the other thread "Why was Jesus so stupid?"
Apparently others also think that Jesus wasn't overly wise...

Not_Registered

I'm not going to debate people that believe Jesus is stupid. That would be a waste of my time. If they truly believe Jesus to be stupid then absolutely nothing I say will change that. If someone is set on believing in Mormonism then nothing I say is going to change that. If someone set on believing in something that ludicrous (either Jesus being stupid, Mormonism, or any ludicrous assumption) then I would be stupid to attempt to converse with that individual on the topic.

Sven

I didn't want to encourage you to enter this debate - I just wanted to point out that there are apparently many people here who don't agree that Jesus was wise. That's all.

BTW, when will you finally address the point that we don't have Jesus words, only the words the gospelwriters attributed to him?

Vicar Philip

Greetings, Not_Registered. Do you believe that every other religion (i.e. Islam, Buddhism, Mormonism, Judaism, etc.) besides Christianity is "ludicrous"? If so, what is your basis for that belief?

Steven Carr

He was just a man of his time, and knew no better. I'm not *blaming* him.

Not_Registered

No, I do not believe any religion besides Christianity is ludicrous, nor do I view atheism or non-theism as ludicrous or even stupid. I completely understand how one could be an atheist or infidel, because one can have a valid logical arguement to defend those beliefs. I don't mean for it to seem that I think all beliefs besides mine to be ludicrous or foolish. But, I do believe Mormonism is completely ludicrous, because unlike atheism and non-theism there is no valid logically stable arguement to defend all the beliefs encompassed by the Mormon faith. I'm not, nor do I claim to be, a religious scholar, but I know about the foundation of the religion (Mormonism) and about many of it's beliefs and based on this knowledge I, any many clear-minded folks, conclude that Mormonism is a ludicrous religion. My statements on Mormonism is not a general feeling I have about all religions or beliefs opposing Christianity, it is what it is - a statement on Mormonism, because, to call a spade a spade, Mormonism is dumb.