Freethought & Rationalism Archive

rstrats · 05-31-2009, 05:01 AM

A poster on another forum, the topic of which was questioning the authenticity of the last 12 verses in the book of Mark, wrote that it doesn’t really matter because there is no doctrinal teaching in Mark 16:9-20 that cannot be proved elsewhere in agreed Scripture.

I made the mistake of sticking my nose into the discussion by pointing out that actually there is a statement in verse 9, as the KJV and similar versions have it, that is used for a doctrinal teaching that is to be found nowhere else in Scripture. As the KJV translates it, it is the only place that puts the resurrection on the first day of the week. I then suggested that whenever the discussion of seventh day observance versus first day observance comes up, first day proponents usually use the idea of a first day resurrection to justify the change, and when questioned about the day of resurrection, quote Mark 16:9. The poster came back with: “Quote a published author who has done that.” - I have not yet been able to come up with one. Does anyone here know of one?

DancesWithCoffeeCups · 05-31-2009, 05:57 AM

This should fare better in BC&H

Huon · 05-31-2009, 09:48 AM

From Catholic Encyclopedia :
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14335a.htm

Quote:

Sunday was the first day of the week according to the Jewish method of reckoning, but for Christians it began to take the place of the Jewish Sabbath in Apostolic times as the day set apart for the public and solemn worship of God. The practice of meeting together on the first day of the week for the celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice is indicated in Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2; in Apocalypse 1:10, it is called the Lord's day. In the Didache (14) the injunction is given: "On the Lord's Day come together and break bread. And give thanks (offer the Eucharist), after confessing your sins that your sacrifice may be pure". St. Ignatius (Ep. ad Magnes. ix) speaks of Christians as "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also Our Life rose again". In the Epistle of Barnabas (xv) we read: "Wherefore, also, we keep the eight day (i.e. the first of the week) with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead".
St. Justin is the first Christian writer to call the day Sunday (I Apol., lxvii) in the celebrated passage in which he describes the worship offered by the early Christians on that day to God.

rstrats · 05-31-2009, 11:03 AM

Huon,

Thanks for responding. However, your quote doesn’t mention Mark 16:9 as support for a first day resurrection.

show_no_mercy · 05-31-2009, 12:53 PM

Are you trying to say that the resurrection happened on the Sabbath and that Mark 16:9 contradicts this?

rstrats · 05-31-2009, 01:31 PM

show_no_mercy,

re: “Are you trying to say that the resurrection happened on the Sabbath and that Mark 16:9 contradicts this?”

Absolutely not. I’m curious as to what you read that would prompt you to ask that question?

show_no_mercy · 05-31-2009, 03:48 PM

What exactly is your problem with Mark 16:9 then?

ApostateAbe · 06-02-2009, 07:48 AM

Here is one:

http://www.faithfellowshipchurch.com...s/page0003.htm

Here is another:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/3157

And here is a published book (page 165):

History of the Sabbath and the First Day of the Week (1912) on Google Books

rstrats · 06-02-2009, 11:07 AM

show_no_mercy,

re: “What exactly is your problem with Mark 16:9 then?”

For the purpose of this topic I have no problem with Mark 16:9. What have I written that makes you think that I do?

rstrats · 06-02-2009, 11:11 AM

ApostateAbe,

Thanks for responding, and maybe I missed it, but I don’t see where the authors of your referenced links use Mark 16:9 to argue a first day of the week resurrection which in turn they used - at least in part - to justify the establishment of the first day of the week as a special day for rest and worship.

05-31-2009, 05:01 AM	#1
rstrats Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Missouri Posts: 60	Mark 16:9 A poster on another forum, the topic of which was questioning the authenticity of the last 12 verses in the book of Mark, wrote that it doesn’t really matter because there is no doctrinal teaching in Mark 16:9-20 that cannot be proved elsewhere in agreed Scripture. I made the mistake of sticking my nose into the discussion by pointing out that actually there is a statement in verse 9, as the KJV and similar versions have it, that is used for a doctrinal teaching that is to be found nowhere else in Scripture. As the KJV translates it, it is the only place that puts the resurrection on the first day of the week. I then suggested that whenever the discussion of seventh day observance versus first day observance comes up, first day proponents usually use the idea of a first day resurrection to justify the change, and when questioned about the day of resurrection, quote Mark 16:9. The poster came back with: “Quote a published author who has done that.” - I have not yet been able to come up with one. Does anyone here know of one?

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05-31-2009, 05:57 AM	#2
DancesWithCoffeeCups Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 8,077	This should fare better in BC&H

05-31-2009, 11:03 AM	#4
rstrats Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Missouri Posts: 60	Huon, Thanks for responding. However, your quote doesn’t mention Mark 16:9 as support for a first day resurrection.

05-31-2009, 12:53 PM	#5
show_no_mercy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dancing Posts: 9,940	Are you trying to say that the resurrection happened on the Sabbath and that Mark 16:9 contradicts this?

05-31-2009, 01:31 PM	#6
rstrats Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Missouri Posts: 60	show_no_mercy, re: “Are you trying to say that the resurrection happened on the Sabbath and that Mark 16:9 contradicts this?” Absolutely not. I’m curious as to what you read that would prompt you to ask that question?

05-31-2009, 03:48 PM	#7
show_no_mercy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dancing Posts: 9,940	What exactly is your problem with Mark 16:9 then?

06-02-2009, 07:48 AM	#8
ApostateAbe Contributor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: MT Posts: 10,656	Here is one: http://www.faithfellowshipchurch.com...s/page0003.htm Here is another: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/3157 And here is a published book (page 165): History of the Sabbath and the First Day of the Week (1912) on Google Books

06-02-2009, 11:07 AM	#9
rstrats Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Missouri Posts: 60	show_no_mercy, re: “What exactly is your problem with Mark 16:9 then?” For the purpose of this topic I have no problem with Mark 16:9. What have I written that makes you think that I do?

06-02-2009, 11:11 AM	#10
rstrats Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Missouri Posts: 60	ApostateAbe, Thanks for responding, and maybe I missed it, but I don’t see where the authors of your referenced links use Mark 16:9 to argue a first day of the week resurrection which in turn they used - at least in part - to justify the establishment of the first day of the week as a special day for rest and worship.

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