pinkvoy

"Now this class of persons may be met with in many places, for it was fitting that both Greece and the country of the barbarians should partake of whatever is perfectly good;.

Philo, Ascetics III


What does "Now this class of persons may be met with in many places, mean?

outhouse

without a mention of Galilee your sunk.

pinkvoy

Is Galilee a place with Jews in Philo's lifetime?

outhouse

you need more then that


you just gave a few million other jews the same status, you need to narrow your window down.


Jesus sect didnt get outside Galilee except for the temple

Toto

It means many places, i.e., more that two or three. You would need it to mean every place for your purposes.

Toto

Au contraire.

If there were multiple sects of Judaism, MOST OF WHICH WE HAVE LITTLE KNOWLEDGE OF, the Theraputae and Jesus could have shared many characteristics and still have been completely different.

The Jewish scholar Hyam Maccoby made a decent case that Jesus was really a Pharisee. I suspect he was wrong, but he had a much more respectable argument than you have presented here.

Are you sure you are not a Christian apologist? Your logic seems twisted and contorted in a way that I have only seen in apologists.

aa5874

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck

I will NOW expose your DUCK problem.

Please open the Bible you Believe is history.

Mark 9 Please IDENTIFY your Duck. There were Multiple Ducks or Multiple things that looked like Ducks in YOUR history book of the Son of the Ghost.

Mark 13 Jesus, the Son of the Ghost and Water walker, PREDICTED that there would be MANY FAKE Ducks.

Philo's Therapeutae were NOT the Ducks in the Bible.

pinkvoy

"Now this class of persons may be met with in many places,

Galilee is a place. He doesn't explicitly exclude Galilee.

DCHindley

Pink,

At least I am not the only one to note this particular phrase in The Contemplative Life:

1.21a Now this class of persons may be met with in many places, for it was fitting that both Greece and the country of the barbarians should partake of whatever is perfectly good;

πολλαχοῦ (from many places) μὲν (on one hand) οὖν (then) τῆς (in the) οἰκουμένης (inhabited earth) ἐστὶ (it is) τὸ (the) γένος (race) ἔδει (should be) γὰρ (for) ἀγαθοῦ (good) τελείου (complete) μετασχεῖν (to share in) καὶ (and) τὴν (the) Ἑλλάδα (Greeks) καὶ (and) τὴν (the) βάρβαρον (barbarians),

1:21b and there is the greatest number of such men in Egypt, in every one of the districts, or nomi as they are called, and especially around Alexandria;

πλεονάζει (it superabounds) δὲ (on the other hand) ἐν (in) Αἰγύπτῳ (Egypt) καθ᾽ (according to) ἕκαστον (every single) τῶν (of the) ἐπικαλουμένων (being said) νόμων (nomes) καὶ (and) μάλιστα (especially) περὶ (around) τὴν (the) Ἀλεξάνδρειαν (Alexandria).

1:22a and from all quarters those who are the best of these therapeutae proceed on their pilgrimage to some most suitable place as if it were their country,

1:22a οἱ (the) δὲ (but) πανταχόθεν (from every direction) ἄριστοι (best) καθάπερ (just as) εἰς (into) πατρίδα (fatherland/hometown) θεραπευτῶν (Therapeutae) ἀποικίαν (colony)

1:22b which is beyond the Mareotic lake, lying in a somewhat level plain a little raised above the rest,

1:22b στέλλονται (keeping away) πρός (towards/with) τι (certain) χωρίον (plain) ἐπιτηδειότατον (suitable) ὅπερ (which) ἐστὶν (is) ὑπὲρ (above) λίμνης (lake) Μαρείας (Mariotes) κείμενον (recline) ἐπὶ (upon) γεωλόφου (a hill) χθαμαλωτέρου, (flat)

1:22c being suitable for their purpose by reason of its safety and also of the fine temperature of the air.

1:22c σφόδρα (exceedingly) εὐκαίρως (convenient), ἀσφαλείας (from security) τε (and) ἕνεκα (on account of) καὶ (also) ἀέρος (air) εὐκρασίας (of mild temperature).

I spent several hours over the weekend pondering exactly what Philo was saying here. I think it is this:

Vss 21 and 22 are in the middle if a discussion about the best way one might retire to a life of solitude, that goes from vss 13 to 23. In it, he notes that Therapeutae give away their excess wealth to family & friends (13), contrasted to the Greeks Anaxagoras and Democritus (14 & 18), who devoted themselves to philosophy to the point where they neglected their property, so that:

18 When, therefore, [such] men [i.e., Anaxagoras and Democritus] abandon their property without being influenced by any predominant attraction, they flee without even turning their heads back again, deserting their brethren, their children, their wives, their parents, their numerous families, their affectionate bands of companions, their native lands in which they have been born and brought up, though long familiarity is a most attractive bond, and one very well able to allure any one.

19 And they depart, not to another city as those do who entreat to be purchased from those who at present possess them, being either unfortunate or else worthless servants, and as such seeking a change of masters rather than endeavoring to procure freedom

(for every city, even that which is under the happiest laws, is full of indescribable tumults, and disorders, and calamities, which no one would submit to who had been even for a moment under the influence of wisdom),

20 but they take up their abode outside of walls, or gardens, or solitary lands, seeking for a desert place, not because of any ill-natured misanthropy to which they have learnt to devote themselves,

but because of the associations with people of wholly dissimilar dispositions to which they would otherwise be compelled, and which they know to be unprofitable and mischievous.

21 III. Now this class of persons [those who drop out of society to pursue philosophy] may be met with in many places, for it was fitting that both Greece and the country of the barbarians [i.e., Egypt] should partake of whatever is perfectly good; and there is the greatest number of such men in Egypt, in every one of the districts, or nomi as they are called, and especially around Alexandria;
...

40 V. ... [The Therapeutae's] common assemblies, and their very cheerful meetings at convivial parties, [sets] them in opposition and contrast to the banquets of others, for others, when they drink strong wine [instead of plain water], as if they had been drinking not wine but some agitating and maddening kind of liquor; or even the most formidable thing which can be imagined for driving a man out of his natural reason, rage about and tear things to pieces like so many ferocious dogs, and rise up and attack one another, biting and gnawing each other's noses, and ears, and fingers, and other parts of their body, so as to give an accurate representation of the story related about the Cyclops and the companions of Ulysses, who ate, as the poet says, fragments of human flesh [Odyssey ix. 355], and that more savagely than even he himself;

41 for he was only avenging himself on those whom he conceived to be his enemies, but they were ill-treating their companions and friends, and sometimes even their actual relations, while having the salt and dinner-table before them, at a time of peace perpetrating actions inconsistent with peace, like those which are done by men in gymnastic contests, debasing the proper exercises of the body as coiners debase good money, and instead of athletes (athletai) becoming miserable men (athlioi), for that is the name which properly belongs to them.

...

47 and in this manner they [the neglectful and the profligate] exist to the very end of their lives, without a house and without a home, the enemies of their parents, and of their wives, and of their children, and the enemies of their country, and the worst enemies of all to themselves. For a debauched and profligate life is apt to lay snares for every one.

Amen :innocent2:

DCH

DCHindley

This is Philo's description of the Therapeutae, without the moral platitudes and the counter-examples of neglectful and profligate men:

11 But the therapeutic sect [γένος, race] of mankind, being continually taught to see without interruption, may well aim at obtaining a sight of the living God, and may pass by the sun, which is visible to the outward sense, and never leave this order which conducts to perfect happiness.

12 But they who apply themselves to this kind of worship, not because they are influenced to do so by custom, nor by the advice or recommendation of any particular persons, but because they are carried away by a certain heavenly love, give way to enthusiasm, behaving like so many revellers in bacchanalian or corybantian mysteries, until they see the object which they have been earnestly desiring.

13 Then, because of their anxious desire for an immortal and blessed existence, thinking that their mortal life has already come to an end, they leave their possessions to their sons or daughters, or perhaps to other relations, giving them up their inheritance with willing cheerfulness; and those who know no relations give their property to their companions or friends, for it followed of necessity that those who have acquired the wealth which sees, as if ready prepared for them, should be willing to surrender that wealth which is blind to those who themselves also are still blind in their minds.

14 ... but how much better were those who have not permitted cattle to devour their possessions, but have supplied the necessities of mankind, of their own relations and friends, and have made them rich though they were poor before? ... but this is the act of sober men, and one which has been carefully elaborated by exceeding prudence.

...

16 How much better and more admirable are they who, without having any inferior eagerness for the attainment of philosophy, have nevertheless preferred magnanimity to carelessness, and, giving presents from their possessions instead of destroying them, so as to be able to benefit others and themselves also, have made others happy by imparting to them of the abundance of their wealth, and themselves by the study of philosophy?

...

22 and [sic, but] from all quarters those who are the best of these therapeutae proceed on their pilgrimage to some most suitable place as if it were their country, which is beyond the Mareotic lake, lying in a somewhat level plain a little raised above the rest, being suitable for their purpose by reason of its safety and also of the fine temperature of the air.

23 For the houses built in the fields and the villages which surround it on all sides give it safety; and the admirable temperature of the air proceeds from the continual breezes which come from the lake which falls into the sea, and also from the sea itself in the neighborhood, the breezes from the sea being light, and those which proceed from the lake which falls into the sea being heavy, the mixture of which produces a most healthy atmosphere.

24 But the houses of these men thus congregated together are very plain, just giving shelter in respect of the two things most important to be provided against, the heat of the sun, and the cold from the open air; and they did not live near to one another as men do in cities, for immediate neighborhood to others would be a troublesome and unpleasant thing to men who have conceived an admiration for, and have determined to devote themselves to, solitude; and, on the other hand, they did not live very far from one another on account of the fellowship which they desire to cultivate, and because of the desirableness of being able to assist one another if they should be attacked by robbers.

25 And in every house there is a sacred shrine which is called the holy place, and the monastery [μοναστήριον, hermit's cell] in which they retire by themselves and perform all the mysteries of a holy life, bringing in nothing, neither meat, nor drink, nor anything else which is indispensable towards supplying the necessities of the body, but studying in that place the laws and the sacred oracles of God enunciated by the holy prophets, and hymns, and psalms, and all kinds of other things by reason of which knowledge and piety are increased and brought to perfection.

26 Therefore they always retain an imperishable recollection of God, so that not even in their dreams is any other object ever presented to their eyes except the beauty of the divine virtues and of the divine powers. Therefore many persons speak in their sleep, divulging and publishing the celebrated doctrines of the sacred philosophy.

27 And they are accustomed to pray twice every day, at morning and at evening; when the sun is rising entreating God that the happiness of the coming day may be real happiness, so that their minds may be filled with heavenly light, and when the sun is setting they pray that their soul, being entirely lightened and relieved of the burden of the outward senses, and of the appropriate object of these outward senses, may be able to trace out truth existing in its own consistory and council chamber.

28 And the interval between morning and evening is by them devoted wholly to meditation on and to practice of virtue, for they take up the sacred scriptures and philosophise concerning them, investigating the allegories of their national philosophy, since they look upon their literal expressions as symbols of some secret meaning of nature, intended to be conveyed in those figurative expressions.

29 They have also writings of ancient men, who having been the founders of one sect or another have left behind them many memorials of the allegorical system of writing and explanation, whom they take as a kind of model, and imitate the general fashion of their sect; so that they do not occupy themselves solely in contemplation, but they likewise compose psalms and hymns to God in every kind of metre and melody imaginable, which they of necessity arrange in more dignified rhythm.

30 Therefore, during six days, each of these individuals, retiring into solitude by himself, philosophizes by himself in one of the places called monasteries, never going outside the threshold of the outer court, and indeed never even looking out. But on the seventh day they all come together as if to meet in a sacred assembly, and they sit down in order according to their ages with all becoming gravity, keeping their hands inside their garments, having their right hand between their chest and their dress, and the left hand down by their side, close to their flank;

31 and then the eldest of them who has the most profound learning in their doctrines comes forward and speaks with steadfast look and with steadfast voice, with great powers of reasoning, and great prudence, not making an exhibition of his oratorical powers like the rhetoricians of old, or the sophists of the present day, but investigating with great pains, and explaining with minute accuracy the precise meaning of the laws, which sits, not indeed at the tips of their ears, but penetrates through their hearing into the soul, and remains there lastingly; and all the rest listen in silence to the praises which he bestows upon the law, showing their assent only by nods of the head, or the eager look of the eyes.

32 And this common holy place to which they all come together on the seventh day is a twofold circuit, being separated partly into the apartment of the men, and partly into a chamber for the women, for women also, in accordance with the usual fashion there, form a part of the audience, having the same feelings of admiration as the men, and having adopted the same sect with equal deliberation and decision;

33 and the wall which is between the houses rises from the ground three or four cubits upwards, like a battlement, and the upper portion rises upwards to the roof without any opening, on two accounts; first of all, in order that the modesty which is so becoming to the female sex may be preserved, and secondly, that the women may be easily able to comprehend what is said being seated within earshot, since there is then nothing which can possibly intercept the voice of him who is speaking.

34 IV. And these expounders of the law, having first of all laid down temperance as a sort of foundation for the soul to rest upon, proceed to build up other virtues on this foundation, and no one of them may take any meat or drink before the setting of the sun, since they judge that the work of philosophizing is one which is worthy of the light, but that the care for the necessities of the body is suitable only to darkness, on which account they appropriate the day to the one occupation, and a brief portion of the night to the other;

35 and some men, in whom there is implanted a more fervent desire of knowledge, can endure to cherish a recollection of their food for three days without even tasting it, and some men are so delighted, and enjoy themselves so exceedingly when regaled by wisdom which supplies them with her doctrines in all possible wealth and abundance, that they can even hold out twice as great a length of time, and will scarcely at the end of six days taste even necessary food, being accustomed, as they say that grasshoppers are, to feed on air; their song, as I imagine, making their scarcity tolerable to them.

36 And they, looking upon the seventh day as one of perfect holiness and a most complete festival, have thought it worthy of a most especial honor; and on it, after taking due care of their soul, they tend their bodies also, giving them, just as they do to their cattle, a complete rest from their continual labors;

37 and they eat nothing of a costly character; but plain bread and a seasoning of salt, which the more luxurious of them to further season with hyssop; and their drink is water from the spring; ... On this account they eat only so far as not to be hungry, and they drink just enough to escape from thirst, avoiding all satiety, ...

38 And there are two kinds of covering, one raiment and the other a house: we have already spoken of their houses, that they are not decorated with any ornaments, but run up in a hurry, being only made to answer such purposes as are absolutely necessary; and in like manner their raiment is of the most ordinary description, just stout enough to ward off cold and heat, being a cloak of some shaggy hide for winter, and a thin mantle or linen shawl in the summer;

39 for in short they practice entire simplicity, ...

continued next post

DCH