Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gabe the Angel · 09-28-2004, 03:32 AM

Were does a bubble go when it pops? I though I was the one who was a little crazy at this site. Someone told me that one day the pipes that connect to the gas will all go bang. To this day this information still has not turned out to be true. So, rather than think in terms of what if, or what when, accept know and what did. The fact is we have all been here before (although not at this site) and will also come back again (maybe back at this site if they keep up the good work), the how is not important and neither is the what if.

DNAinaGoodway · 09-28-2004, 05:59 AM

Right! Ok, before I get too lost, let me try this:

Either reincarnation is possible, or it isn't.

My best understanding at the moment, based on the evidence I can find, is that our consciousness is unique and only lasts from when our neurons develop until they decay.

I see no mechanism for a transfer of information from one set of neurons to another.

But then I don't have the math skills to understand multiverses. So, can you point me to a site that would contain evidence of how my information is transferred?

Or, if I exist on many levels (dimensions?) Is there any evidence for that?

It's an interesting idea, but my understanding is unlikely to change sans evidence.

crocodile deathroll · 09-28-2004, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNAinaGoodway

Right! Ok, before I get too lost, let me try this:

Either reincarnation is possible, or it isn't.

My best understanding at the moment, based on the evidence I can find, is that our consciousness is unique and only lasts from when our neurons develop until they decay.

I see no mechanism for a transfer of information from one set of neurons to another.

But then I don't have the math skills to understand multiverses. So, can you point me to a site that would contain evidence of how my information is transferred?

Or, if I exist on many levels (dimensions?) Is there any evidence for that?

It's an interesting idea, but my understanding is unlikely to change sans evidence.

I view consciousness as merely the universe accidently stumbling on a means through emergent complexity to be aware of its own existence. So there is no God or divine plan for this, you just exist in a universe that made every possible physical accident. So you are no miracle.
I am a proponant of the
weak anthropic principle

Quote:

The Weak Anthropic Principle states the following: "The observed values of all physical and cosmological quantities are not equally probable but they take on values restricted by the requirement that there exist sites where carbon-based life can evolve and by the requirements that the Universe be old enough for it to have already done so."

DBT · 09-28-2004, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocodile deathroll

If the block universe view is correct, it is irrational to fear death. We apparently fear death because we believe that we will no longer exist after we die. But according to the block universe model, it"s not true to say that we exist now, but won"t exist any longer after death. Death is just one of our temporal borders, and should be no more worrisome than birth!

I'm not sure if you mean that our personal consiousness survives death complete with our memories?
Or that with the block universe model, isolated versions of ourselves continue to exist but without a sense of personal memory to connect them?

crocodile deathroll · 09-28-2004, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBT

I'm not sure if you mean that our personal consiousness survives death complete with our memories?
Or that with the block universe model, isolated versions of ourselves continue to exist but without a sense of personal memory to connect them?

In block universe logic, stating that "your life exists before you are born and will no longer exist after you die" would be as silly as stating in a situation you were a driver of an express train that is poised to pass though a small town ahead "the town exists when it is ahead of you and totally ceases exist when you left it behind in the train's wake."

CDR

WCH · 09-28-2004, 11:33 PM

My big problem with "continuous living" as whichphilosophy so expertly put it is the problem of a booming population. If there were always the same number of people, this would make sense, but there simply aren't. Population occasionally dips, and is on the general rise... during a dip, there must be at least some point when not all prior existing souls have bodies, and, when it rises, are new souls being created?

Gabe the Angel · 09-28-2004, 11:59 PM

If you can think in terms of a flower that spreads its seeds, then this may answer the question. The crop can increase and decrease, but the flower still remains, its just like you, you remain.

crocodile deathroll · 09-29-2004, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCH

My big problem with "continuous living" as whichphilosophy so expertly put it is the problem of a booming population. If there were always the same number of people, this would make sense, but there simply aren't. Population occasionally dips, and is on the general rise... during a dip, there must be at least some point when not all prior existing souls have bodies, and, when it rises, are new souls being created?

Many indications show that our population is finishing with its booming particularly in the industrialized world as the fertility rate drops as technology replaces the need for many hands there will be much smaller population to support in the future.
So in the fullness of the 4 dimensional timescape there is a large population swell in the 20th and 21st century then this may explain why you and I happened to be born is such excitingly advanced and populous times: IMO your existence is likely to be just product of random selection amongst all the people on earth that have lived and ever will live. That being the case then the most likely time for you to be born would be the period of the large population bulge on the human population graph and not one of the stragglers in the thinly populated periods in the stone age or perhaps the far future where humanity could not resist pushing the nuclear trigger as he could not truly uninvent the nuclear bomb.

CDR

DBT · 09-29-2004, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocodile deathroll

In block universe logic, stating that "your life exists before you are born and will no longer exist after you die" would be as silly as stating in a situation you were a driver of an express train that is poised to pass though a small town ahead "the town exists when it is ahead of you and totally ceases exist when you left it behind in the train's wake."

CDR

So with that analogy,external reality and our lives are sort of like frames in a roll of film being run through a projector giving it the illusion of life and movement?

But in reality the 'past' 'present' and 'future' exist simultaniously in a block universe.

If that's right what then it that that gives us the 'illusion' of moving farward in time?
consiousness?
Entropy?

crocodile deathroll · 09-29-2004, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBT

But in reality the 'past' 'present' and 'future' exist simultaniously in a block universe.

If that's right what then it that that gives us the 'illusion' of moving farward in time?
consiousness?
Entropy?

Yes exactly, I stated that in earlier post:

Quote:

That is illusion is created by the second law of thermodynamics and not some absolute flow of time that will still flow on inexorably after you die.

09-28-2004, 11:59 PM	#17
Gabe the Angel Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: England Posts: 436	The booming population If you can think in terms of a flower that spreads its seeds, then this may answer the question. The crop can increase and decrease, but the flower still remains, its just like you, you remain.

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09-28-2004, 03:32 AM	#11
Gabe the Angel Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: England Posts: 436	Were does a bubble go when it pops? I though I was the one who was a little crazy at this site. Someone told me that one day the pipes that connect to the gas will all go bang. To this day this information still has not turned out to be true. So, rather than think in terms of what if, or what when, accept know and what did. The fact is we have all been here before (although not at this site) and will also come back again (maybe back at this site if they keep up the good work), the how is not important and neither is the what if.

09-28-2004, 05:59 AM	#12
DNAinaGoodway Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: 71d47m30sW 42d17m30sN Posts: 396	Right! Ok, before I get too lost, let me try this: Either reincarnation is possible, or it isn't. My best understanding at the moment, based on the evidence I can find, is that our consciousness is unique and only lasts from when our neurons develop until they decay. I see no mechanism for a transfer of information from one set of neurons to another. But then I don't have the math skills to understand multiverses. So, can you point me to a site that would contain evidence of how my information is transferred? Or, if I exist on many levels (dimensions?) Is there any evidence for that? It's an interesting idea, but my understanding is unlikely to change sans evidence.

09-28-2004, 11:33 PM	#16
WCH Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 6,290	My big problem with "continuous living" as whichphilosophy so expertly put it is the problem of a booming population. If there were always the same number of people, this would make sense, but there simply aren't. Population occasionally dips, and is on the general rise... during a dip, there must be at least some point when not all prior existing souls have bodies, and, when it rises, are new souls being created?

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