Mageth

Egads!

"Anyone who disagrees with me is a moron, is foggy in the brain, and HATES BABY JESUS!"

Sheesh...listen to yourself, man. Poison the well much?

I'll GUARANTEE you that I've researched this subject far more thoroughly than you, and continue to do so.

Can you decipher the above for me? You seem to be indicating that I must do something...as if you were the boss of me!...but it's not clear to me what it is. Something about "finding where the argument must go".

Well, your argument, so far, goes nowhere. Is that sufficient?

And, pray tell, where exactly did I ask you to research anything for me?

Oh, and I guess I left "lazy" out of the above accusations!

I'll repeat:

You have yet to present anything approaching a "likely argument". Baseless assertions, for the most part.

I'll add:

If you come here and make assertions, any assertions, the ball is in your court to back them up.

gracebkr

Whoa someone's touchy. You asked, where did I get my factoids from. So, if you want to dismiss what I said, the parts you quoted go ahead. I am not going to find things and waste my time to prove anything I said is true. If you believe it to be false, you prove it. Notice how you are mad because I told you to do your own research and you flipped out because I am not the boss of you! Then at the end you told me the same thing. Haha. You also made the claim you have studied something more then me, I think someone likes to pat themselves on the back too much and only feels good not only if they feel superior, but letting someone know they feel that way. Feelings are not reality.

gracebkr

And I said anyone who disputes Jesus ever lived is a moron. Not anyone who disagrees with me. So quote me correctly please.

Mageth

You assert that it is "indisputable" that Jesus lived etc etc. Then you say that "anyone that disputes Jesus ever lived" is a moron. Therefore, you say that anyone that disagrees with you ABOUT the "indisputable" existence of Jesus is a moron.

And what you are doing is called "poisoning the well". You ask, for example, for me to "prove" that what you say is false. But you've ALREADY labeled me a "moron" if I were to do so! That's called poisoning the well.

LogDog

What's the difference?

tonan22

You have to fully believe with all your heart that God is real and then, and only then, will your prayers be heard/answered, right? Meaning if you have just a tad of a pesky little doubt, God will not hear/answer you. He will wait until you have truly and for realsies "given over your heart" to him fully before he shows you his magical wondrous free gift of love. Right?

Why should it work this way? If your loving god is a universal truth (like gravity is), then anyone anywhere in the universe should be able to demonstrate his existence at any time (like gravity). A child can demostrate that gravity is real by throwing an object into the air and watching it fall. But he needn't even do that. The fact that he doesn't suddenly get flung up from the earth's surface into space is proof of gravity. No one anywhere in the universe can show that gravity doesn't exist. Why doesn't your invisible super hero have this amazing property? Why do we have to really really REALLY believe in him in order for him to be real to us?

The answer is, of course, that the statement, "You really have to believe in X before it is real" is the precursor to a scam. The hypnotist, the psychic, the John Edwards of the world, they all rape your intellect with such statements just before they dazzle you with their amazing powers. They get your money, you feel great about it, and you're 100% positive that something magical happened. But its all a scam. And your all-powerful, all-loving, all-merciful invisible sky daddy is the greatest scam of them all. You can be proud of that, at least.

ziffel

Says the person who misquoted me earlier to prop up a strawman.

If it's truly the case that anyone who disputes Jesus ever lived is a moron, then the evidence supporting that must be overwhelming, and should be very easy to find and present.

If it's something that's so easy, why not just humor us, and do so? who knows maybe you'll come up with some evidence that wins a few converts.

As a Christian, aren't you supposed to be presenting evidence of your Christ, in order to win over and save the lost?

Seriously, do you have 1 shred of evidence, or do you think calling people morons makes your beliefs appear true? Trust me, it doesn't. It just makes it look as though you've got nothing, so you resort ad homs instead. Very juvenile.

gracebkr

He did. It is like disputing 2 + 2 = 4. It is a fact he lived. Our calendar is based around someone who never lived? Yea right.

Mageth

Naah; simply responding to your, umm, vitriol.

Yes. It's a valid question.

Asking you to back up your assertions is not dismissing your assertions.

Well, that's a responsible and productive way to go about things. NOT!

If you assert it to be true, back it up. That's the way it works.

Notice how you exaggerate.

HaHa. What I actually said was "If you come here and make assertions, any assertions, the ball is in your court to back them up." I'm not telling you to do anything. I'm telling you how this process of discussion is supposed to work. Assertions should be backed up if you want them seriously considered. Otherwise, your assertions will carry absolutely no weight around here, and you will be hammered for it.

I'm 51, and have been studying this subject for most of that time. For the first 45 years of that, I was a Christian, and diligently studied Christianity and its claims. Over the last 10 years or so, quite intensely. And I continue to do so.

How 'bout you?

Oh, cry me a river. You said "Do your own research...Not to be mean, but I did mine." In doing so, you strongly implied that I haven't researched the topic. Well, guess what, bucko? I have. And from that research, I know that your assertions are unfounded.

As I said, I believe it's probable that the Jesus legend is based on a real character. But there's some probability that it's not - that it's a totally fabricated legend. Thus, the claim that it's "indisputable" is patently false - as there are those who dispute it! And they're not morons. Nor do they do so out of "hate".

That's my position on "just" the existence of a man named Jesus ca. 30 CE., and on your blatantly unsupported and unsupportable assertions. Those other claims about Jesus? There's even less support for those. So little, in fact, that I disbelieve them. Your "there's no body, which proves the miracles" defense is, well, laughable. It's been dealt with many time here before. If you want to assert that those are true, then the ball is in your court to provide the evidence.

That's the way it is. If you make the assertion, then you need to back it up. I don't have to disprove your assertions; you have to back them up.

If you assert that the "miraculous" claims about Jesus are true, present your evidence. Hopefully, of better quality than the nonsense you've already tossed out. In any case, like the missing body argument, I've probably already seen it before. In fact, I'd be very surprised if you did present anything that I haven't seen and considered many times. I've been on this board, dealing with such assertions from various people of various caliber, for over 6 years now. I've heard your spiel before, many times - and presented in much better formats, and by far more reasonable debators.

So get with it, man. Do your part. Back up your assertions, or you'll be ignored.

Mageth

It is not a fact that Jesus lived - and pointing that out is not like disputing that 2 + 2 = 4.

LOL. "Argument from the Calendar". Actually, I think that gem's been trotted out a time or two around here.

Look at the names of the months and of the days of the week. Find out the source of those names.

Do those prove that the various gods represented thereby exist?