herev

AND at the appointed time, I was online talking on IM with one exec and one other admin, I was there, and waited.

Dorothy

So you shouldn't get a tatoo because it's like having clothes that smell or stink? I think God will forgive that.

Okay, I'm going to resist going down this road. Look, why don't you take whoever it is who is always offering to debate this with you (Flesh99?) up on the offer and do this once and for all. But I'm quite sure our friendly mod is about to tell us to quite this bickering here in this thread :devil3:

Crazy Liz

I don't know what to say to that. I believe you, I really do.

herev

and your's was not online, mine was as can be attested to by the ones I was talking to then.
Why keep fighting? Why not simply do what is being asked of you to REALLY find out what it was all about instead of making stuff up and spreading those lies, even going so far as to defend yourself against why you THINK you were temporarily removed? It would have been so simple.

Ciborium

Then you've made your choice, and are to be at least admired for sticking by your friend.

I simply was taking herev up on his initial plea for forgiveness, and I think I'm a fair judge of knowing when I've been purposefully wronged by someone. I also think I'm a fair judge of following the facts of what I've intimately been invoved with and personally witnessed. Sure, there's room for a better appraisal by an all-seeing source, but even coerced harm is harm. I've never asserted that others were not involved and complicit in the harm.

herev

in fact kib, why don't you pm me the email address you used (or heck, post it here) on msn. Check your records now.

seebs

If there were a magic spell, it would be more tolerable.

As is, it's not mostly that people are merely complicit in suffering; they are active proponents of it. There are policies which are a carefully considered decision to harm people so other people will be happier.

Of course it matters. Does the fact that I don't live in central Africa mean it's no longer a problem that people are being killed there in stupid wars?

I have been critical of the same things for the same reasons for about four years now. I, like many, have kept trying. However, at this point, I think it is no longer possible to make a compelling case that enforcing these rules can be justified. The harm done exceeds the benefit by so much as to be unbelievable.

It is understandable that some people passively accept being happy at the expense of others they don't know about or care about. It is not quite so understandable that there are people who are going around arresting protesters day after day.

Why do it? Why continue to enforce bad laws?

countrygal

**HUGS**

seebs, i would love to have it lceared up. it doesn't really afect me because i wasn't even involved. i just got a pm from cib and responded that i was sorry and expressed concern blah blah blah bc i didn't have any specifics and wanted to help. it wasn't till i found out that 'the admin' he was referring to in his pm (bc mine didn't say herev's name) was herev that i realized there was way more to this and i went to exec demanding answers. once some light was shed and the mere fact that herev got accused of some pretty heavy stuff i knew something was amiss.

this is really between cib and herev and if they can work it out great but i can't stomach derogatory things being said about someone who i know in my heart is a good man.

seebs

I mean no offense, but this strikes me as very unlikely. To know that, we have to know another's heart.

Once again, I have seen many circumstances in which a trivial misunderstanding led to a massive one, in which events were entirely misconstrued by a number of people.

For all I know, you guys agreed to meet at a given time, then got your time zones wrong. Dumber things have happened.

Crazy Liz

Amen!