Originally Posted by Duvduv

Here is a list of places where the term "rabbi" is used in the gospels. It's really interesting since the term rabbi was not used among the "orthodox" Jews until after the destruction of the Temple, one of the best known being "Rabbi Akiva." So this is a further suggestion that the gospels did not exist in the 1st century. For instance, Hillel and Shammai are not identified as "rabbi". The other term used for several people is Rabban but was pretty much restricted to the family of Rabban Gamliel after Rabban Yochanan Ben Zakkai.

GJohn 1:38, 49; 3:26 3:2, 4:31, 6:25; 9:2 and 11:8
GMatt 26:25, 49
GMark 9:5; 11:21; 14:45

Someone must have informed the author(s) of the epistles to this fact which is why the term rabbi is never mentioned.

Originally Posted by Iskander

Using the term "rabbi" in the gospels

The term rabbi was first used in reference to the rabbis of the Sanhedrin during the first century C.E. Throughout the medieval period the term referred to the common man, while the term harav implied scholarship.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...sm/Rabbis.html

The ancient Jewish court system was called the Sanhedrin. The Great Sanhedrin was the supreme religious body in the Land of Israel during the time of the Holy Temple. There were also smaller religious Sanhedrins in every town in the Land of Israel, as well as a civil political-democratic Sanhedrin. These Sanhedrins existed until the abolishment of the rabbinic patriarchate in about 425 C.E.


The earliest record of a Sanhedrin is by Josephus who wrote of a political Sanhedrin convened by the Romans in 57 B.C.E. Hellenistic sources generally depict the Sanhedrin as a political and judicial council headed by the country’s ruler.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...Sanhedrin.html

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Hi Joe

The Titles Rabbi/Rabbouni and Mark 9:5 argues that in Mark rabbi means master not teacher.

Andrew Criddle

Originally Posted by Duvduv

Here is a list of places where the term "rabbi" is used in the gospels. It's really interesting since the term rabbi was not used among the "orthodox" Jews until after the destruction of the Temple, one of the best known being "Rabbi Akiva." So this is a further suggestion that the gospels did not exist in the 1st century. For instance, Hillel and Shammai are not identified as "rabbi". The other term used for several people is Rabban but was pretty much restricted to the family of Rabban Gamliel after Rabban Yochanan Ben Zakkai.

GJohn 1:38, 49; 3:26 3:2, 4:31, 6:25; 9:2 and 11:8
GMatt 26:25, 49
GMark 9:5; 11:21; 14:45

Someone must have informed the author(s) of the epistles to this fact which is why the term rabbi is never mentioned.

Originally Posted by Iskander

Using the term "rabbi" in the gospels

The Jewish annotated New Testament says this:
The Jewish annotated New Testament
Amy-Jill Levine and Marc Zvi Brettler
OUP,
ISBN 9780195297706

Originally Posted by Duvduv

YES, but only after the destruction of the Temple, i.e. after 70 CE.

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Qualified by YHWH? Or by mortal man?

That's not Jewish, it's Gentile talk. It's nowhere near unique in imagined Judaism, either.

Originally Posted by judge

Ok so lets summarise.

1. Rabboni/Rabbi only ever has one meaning. This meaning is that used by some jews as a title. It has no other meanings.

2. This word was never ever used in any sense prior to 70 CE.

So around 70 CE one faction of jews decide that they want a word to use as a title.
One bright spark says "hey there is an old Akkadian word that no one ever uses, lets use that word...sure it'll sound wierd cos no one has ever heard of it, but lets give it a try."

Originally Posted by JoeWallack

1) RB = "Master" in Hebrew.

2) RBY = My Master. The Yod (Y) at the end is a singular possessive

Of note is that "Mark" uses a Greek transliteration for Rabbi ...

The problem here is the simplicity of the Hebrew language where RB has the general, broader meaning of "Master", which includes the narrower meaning "Teacher" (with a context of Teacher and Student). So what is the likely context of "Mark" 9:5? The likely context is "Teacher"...

The supporting Thread shows that before the Temple crash there is no example of any Jewish Teacher being referred to as RBY in the 1st century or anywhere close. Post crash, on the other washed hand, RBY becomes the standard reference. Therefore, it is likely that "Mark's" use of RBY is anachronistic. This is consistent with the overall evidence that "Mark" was written well after 70.

In trying to defend "Mark" the issue than becomes is it possible that Jesus was historically addressed as RBY in the story? To do so you need a context of "Master". Of course it's possible since RBY does mean "my master" and Jesus was the Authority in his relationship with Peter. Even using a context of "Master" though RBY here still seems unlikely:

1) There is no example of RBY for the 1st century or anywhere close.

2) Related writing is more likely to have a context of religious teacher rather than master. But the normal address for a context of master would be RB, "master". That's why RBY become the title for religious teacher, it's not the normal address for "Master".

...