DCHindley

Good question. I recall he had his reasons, but do not recall them off the top of my head. I read it in 2001 and my library is packed away in boxes right now, but I could dig it up in a day or two.

Yes, Philemon is usually considered genuine, although I have to wonder why the publisher would mix a genuine article in with pseudepigraphs?

The gist of my statements was to suggest that the Pauline corpus, as we have it, was created from three groups of manuscripts (two groups addessed to congregations, one group to individuals).

The authenticity of books in group 2 are questioned more than those in group 1 (books in group 3 even more so, although the change in genre might also affect these evaluations). If we accept your inclination to move Ephesians to group 2, then this group holds all the disputed books among those addressed to concregations (Ephesians, Colossians and maybe 2 Thessalonians).

Group 1 does have the longer, theologically "meatier" books. Group 2 is lighter fare, although they still deal with themes (as opposed to issues as in group 3). Are critics perhaps judging authenticity on the basis of "meatiness?" Paul, as we all know, is supposed to be the tormented genius who invented Christianity as we know it today by taking the higher ethical teachings of Jesus to a level that obviates the very need for Judaism as a religious faith.

Could we be subconsciously assuming that only books in group 1 are "serious" enough to befit such a genius?

He makes a lot of very interesting observations about the editing practices of publishers in antiquity, and how these practices might be observed in the order of books in the Pauline corpus, and individual books in the corpus.

Ben C Smith

I sure would not fall into that category. I tend to accept the authenticity of Philemon, Philippians, and 1 and 2 Thessalonians no less than that of the Hauptbriefe (the big four).

Ben.

Chris Weimer

2 Thessalonians too? I accept the first, but not the second.

Ben C Smith

Yes. I may be wrong, naturally, but yes.

Ben.

Chris Weimer

How would you explain the change in opinion about parousia in II Thes?

Solo

¸

It`s quite possible that Paul was in Roman bonds. What seems to me improbable is that Paul was so naive as to think of the praetorian guard as a target of his proselythizing. So, the historical factuality would be a bit shaky IMHO if it rests on the opinion that Paul wrote this.

Jiri

aa5874

The notion that an author of some of the Pauline Epistles was imprisoned yet was still able to write about Christ is doubtful to me if this author was put in prison for preaching this very same Christ.

All his letters propagating his offence, preaching Chist, would be used as evidence against him and would be directed to his prosecutors to secure guilt and severe punishment. And it is even more striking that these letters would contain names of accomplices which would put these people life in danger of death.

It seems to me that it is likely that none of the authors of the Pauline Epistles spent a single day in any jail and that the Epistles are a compilation of forgery and fraud.

And at so late a date, without any known confirmed writings from the authors of Colossians or Ephesians, and except for differences in writing style, the authors of these Epistles may never be known.

dog-on

aa,

Please escort that elephant from the room.

Thanks.

andrewcriddle

According to Acts Paul was in prison not for being a Christian as such, but as a result of allegations that he had committed sacrilege in the Jerusalem Temple provoking a riot.

Andrew Criddle

andrewcriddle

Hi Ben

Instead of replying to the specific question, can I give some more evidence of allusions by Clement to Ephesians ?

chapter 46:6
is regarded by Ehrman as alluding to Ephesians 4:4-6

We also have references in chapter 36:2 and 59:3 to the eyes of our hearts
hHMWN hOI OPhThALMOI THS KARDIAS & TOUS OPhThALMOUS THS KARDIAS hHMWN respectively. This is an unusual expression which is paralleled in Ephesians 1:18 the eyes of your hearts TOUS OPhThALMOUS THS KARDIAS [hUMWN]

Andrew Criddle