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Old 06-14-2012, 01:38 PM   #191
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That's also not something Paul could have been referring to because it's not something that actually happened or people who actually existed. Paul didn't even know about an empty tomb, much less 500 non-canonical guards.
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:42 PM   #192
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[*]The 500 is pure tradition development
Then why isn't it in the Gospels? It is not a claim attested anywhere outside of 1 Corinthians. It sounds to me like just some bullshit Paul made up (or stretched from some now forgotten incident). No one else in the Pauline tradition - not even Luke - seems to know anything about it, so if it was tradition development, it didn't survive its infancy.
It's actually related to the Acts of Pilate 12, in which we find, "Pilate therefore, upon this, gave them five hundred soldiers, who also sat round the sepulchre so as to guard it, after having put seals upon the stone of the tomb."
In Version B of the Acts of Pilate which is most unlikely to be early.
Which is the point. Acts of Pilate preserves a tradition, whose age we don't know, but it appears to be post-gospel, thus post-Pauline. 500 soldiers witness the resurrection. This is consistent with 1 Cor 15:3-11 being an interpolation. But you've been through this before.
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:25 PM   #193
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That's also not something Paul could have been referring to because it's not something that actually happened or people who actually existed. Paul didn't even know about an empty tomb, much less 500 non-canonical guards.
You don't even know when Paul existed. You appear to have NO interest in the evidence that shows the Paul writer is surrounded and inundated with questionable sources and forgeries.

You do NOT appear to be serious.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:21 PM   #194
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And also not physical, but "spiritual,"
Coming back to this, it should be noted that the word αναστασις (rising up = resurrection) had a physical connotation at the time of Paul. The verb is found in LXX Gen 24:61 where Rebekah arose, the noun in Lam 3:63, which talks of sitting down and rising up. The noun in Lk 2:34 and the verb in 4:39 both indicate people rising up to go somewhere. In Heb 11:35 the women receiving their dead through resurrection can only be perceived as physical.

So both before and after Paul αναστασις indicated a physical event. I see no evidence that his use of the word has anything other than a physical connotation.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:04 PM   #195
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In Version B of the Acts of Pilate which is most unlikely to be early.
Which is the point. Acts of Pilate preserves a tradition, whose age we don't know, but it appears to be post-gospel, thus post-Pauline. 500 soldiers witness the resurrection. This is consistent with 1 Cor 15:3-11 being an interpolation. But you've been through this before.
This is completely circular. It is consistent (maybe) with Pil. knowing of 1 Cor (which it should,since Pil. is 4th Century), but it's not even a given that the author of the Acta Pilati is alluding to Paul's 500. Just because that number is the same doesn't mean he's necessarily intending to reference 1 Cor. Paul does not give an indication that the 500 were Roman soldiers, and more significantly, Paul's 500 appearance is penultimate in his chronology while Pil. would have to place it first. Furthermore, the author of Pil. is clearly referencing Matthew here (the only Evangelist who puts guards at the tomb), so there's no reason to think it has anything to do with Paul's 500.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:08 PM   #196
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And also not physical, but "spiritual,"
Coming back to this, it should be noted that the word αναστασις (rising up = resurrection) had a physical connotation at the time of Paul. The verb is found in LXX Gen 24:61 where Rebekah arose, the noun in Lam 3:63, which talks of sitting down and rising up. The noun in Lk 2:34 and the verb in 4:39 both indicate people rising up to go somewhere. In Heb 11:35 the women receiving their dead through resurrection can only be perceived as physical.

So both before and after Paul αναστασις indicated a physical event. I see no evidence that his use of the word has anything other than a physical connotation.
Well, there is the fact that he adamantly denies the very possibility of a physical resurrection and calls people idiots for believing in it.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:10 PM   #197
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That's also not something Paul could have been referring to because it's not something that actually happened or people who actually existed. Paul didn't even know about an empty tomb, much less 500 non-canonical guards.
You don't even know when Paul existed. You appear to have NO interest in the evidence that shows the Paul writer is surrounded and inundated with questionable sources and forgeries.

You do NOT appear to be serious.
I mean Paul as the Pauline writer, the same as I say "Mark" and "Luke," and "Homer."
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:38 PM   #198
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In Version B of the Acts of Pilate which is most unlikely to be early.
Which is the point. Acts of Pilate preserves a tradition, whose age we don't know, but it appears to be post-gospel, thus post-Pauline. 500 soldiers witness the resurrection. This is consistent with 1 Cor 15:3-11 being an interpolation. But you've been through this before.
This is completely circular.
Weird idea of circularity. I'm using the gospels as a marker. If it exists after the gospels (Acts of Pilate) but not in the gospels, it suggests that it is more recent than the gospels. We don't expect flip-flopping traditions. (This is related to the thought involved in lectio difficilior.)

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It is consistent (maybe) with Pil. knowing of 1 Cor (which it should,since Pil. is 4th Century), but it's not even a given that the author of the Acta Pilati is alluding to Paul's 500. Just because that number is the same doesn't mean he's necessarily intending to reference 1 Cor. Paul does not give an indication that the 500 were Roman soldiers, and more significantly, Paul's 500 appearance is penultimate in his chronology while Pil. would have to place it first. Furthermore, the author of Pil. is clearly referencing Matthew here (the only Evangelist who puts guards at the tomb), so there's no reason to think it has anything to do with Paul's 500.
?
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:40 PM   #199
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And also not physical, but "spiritual,"
Coming back to this, it should be noted that the word αναστασις (rising up = resurrection) had a physical connotation at the time of Paul. The verb is found in LXX Gen 24:61 where Rebekah arose, the noun in Lam 3:63, which talks of sitting down and rising up. The noun in Lk 2:34 and the verb in 4:39 both indicate people rising up to go somewhere. In Heb 11:35 the women receiving their dead through resurrection can only be perceived as physical.

So both before and after Paul αναστασις indicated a physical event. I see no evidence that his use of the word has anything other than a physical connotation.
Well, there is the fact that he adamantly denies the very possibility of a physical resurrection and calls people idiots for believing in it.
Perhaps you are relying too much on the translation.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:44 PM   #200
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In Heb 11:35 the women receiving their dead through resurrection can only be perceived as physical.

So both before and after Paul αναστασις indicated a physical event. I see no evidence that his use of the word has anything other than a physical connotation.
You are missing a crucial point here though, Heb 11:35
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35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection.

Obviously the better resurrection is contrasted with your physical one
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