Peter Kirby

I would attempt to interpret this fellow charitably and note that he asks for so-called "biographies" of someone who never existed (more specifically, he asks for at least four of them within one hundred years of the putative date of that someone, before the printing press)--so, I doubt that the word as this fellow is employing it carries the subtext "a biography is a historical account," and this subthread really takes our attention away from what he is actually asking. Let me rephrase it for him:

Kindly present an example of a non-existent figure where there are at least four narrative accounts of him or her written within about a hundred years of his or her putative time of death--before the printing press.

Now we have the example of Jesus, perhaps, but even as just an idle exercise, it might be interesting to find more. Someone suggested Prester John, and I'd be interested in hearing more about the sources; it just might be the ticket. Any other candidates? King Arthur and other suggestions made so far clearly don't qualify by dint of the date of their sources.

Now, if this request cannot be met, is that any evidence for the historicity of Jesus? Amaleq13 asks, "Do you have a logical argument or theory of history to support it?" And it's a fair question. I will wait for the person who put forward the inquiry to respond.

kind thoughts,
Peter Kirby

gurugeorge

Hmmm. This doesn't sit very well with his initial post which asked:

Admittedly he also later adds "who never lived". Maybe he isn't really sure himself what he's asking for.

It doesn't make much difference either way, as it's hard to see how failure to fulfil his requests either way would impact the MJ hypothesis.

Peter Kirby

I refer you to:

Oh yeah -- and if you want to defend "Jesus Myth", it should be 4 bios within a century of the life of someone who never existed ...

From the same post.

And:

If you want to go find 4 comparable bios -- you can include borrowing and re-use of previous sources, which is hardly an unheard-of thing -- of someone who never existed, go for it.

And again, unless someone comes up with those 4 bios within a century, before invention of printing press, of someone who never existed...

If you can find four (4) similarly-lengthed “popular biographies� written before the printing press within a century of the life of the person in question, and there is solid reason to believe that this person *never existed*, then you’ll have demonstrated that there is reason that the “Jesus Myth� theory should not necessarily be dismissed out of hand.

Now, substitute some other phrase for the multifarious (or is that nefarious?) word "biography," and I think you'll have his sense: "writings about a life," "narrative accounts," or "collection of stories about a person" could do the job.

kind thoughts,
Peter Kirby

Vorkosigan

Yeah, I think we're going to see some rapid goalpost shifting on what counts as "bios". One could list a number of recurring figures in medieval romance, like Guy of Warwick or Bevis of Hampton or Garin de Monglane or Reynard the Fox or even Robin Hood -- but Fish will probably say -- hey, those are romances, i'm talking about bios. So I think what counts as a "bio" is really what's at issue here (prose? verse? ballad?). Which is why no progress can be made until Fish defines what a bio is and shows why the gospels must be bios.

gurugeorge

Hmm, well I'm not a classics specialist, but if the remit's as broad as that I'm sure a classics specialist could cite 4 "biographies" of either real or fictional characters. Erm ...

But it's still hard to see why Fisher thinks it's a conclusive test either for HJ or against MJ.

Peter Kirby

I would count romance, prose, verse, and ballad under how I understand the question he posed. But sure, it would be a great idea to get a definition of whatever-it-is-he-is-talking-about so that there isn't any goalpost shifting.

kind thoughts,
Peter Kirby

Vorkosigan

Yes, that was Amalek's point above. One can think of all sorts of unique historical and fictional characters and the narratives associated with them. Uniqueness says nothing unless it is underlined by a model of history.

Vorkosigan

Xixax

My apologies: I didn't notice "before the printing press" in this ridiculous challenge.

As has already been stated, it doesn't matter whether there are other examples or not. I will go back to lurking, I am completely out of my element in this forum.

jonesg

or that he was the only one willing to go to the cross to fullfill prophesy.

If he had failed to do that, his message would have been lost .

His message was so effective it dissolved the roman empire...eventually.

rob117

If you read the Straight Dope article, it explains this. Whether you find it plausible is a different story; I generally do, up to a point.