aa5874

There is something wrong with this story. The men saw no-one, and Saul was blind. They all saw no-one.

Jesus did not exist. It is true.

spin

I guess you've read what you cited, so you can understand that a real live Jesus wasn't necessary for Paul to believe what he believed. He never saw a real Jesus. He got his gospel from revelation. Get the point?

You don't need a real Jesus. The idea is sufficient.


spin

spamandham

Using this same approach, Quetzlcoatl must also exist, since there couldn't have been Mayans if he hadn't.

If you haven't figured it out yet, this is a freethinkers forum. The miracle claims are deemed evidence that Jesus is legendary/mythical, rather than evidence he was a god.

The miracles are not historical.

Asclepius, Aeneas, Apollonius of Tyana, Osiris ...

Amaleq13

An incoherent concept does not enhance the credibility of a belief system.

Merlin27

http://www.missiontoamerica.org/history.html

Merlin27

Paul didn't create Christianity. Sure you don't need Jesus to be present in the flesh for *new* Christians to believe. But you need Jesus to have been on earth in order for Christianity to start from *scratch*. Especially since the Bible give detaits of Jesus birth, life, death, and ressurrection.

They had to originate from something or someone. They were not Gods but they probably were people or something. How many followers do they have today? Jesus has many many followers today 2000yrs later. The Bible gives details of Jesus birth, life, death, and ressurrection. So if you don't believe the NT then tell me Who made Jesus up, When did he make him up, Why did he make him up.

Why would him performing miracles become deemed as mythical/legendary. Wouldn't the Son of God be able to perform miracles? Don't get hung up on his miracles anyway. Look at his teachings of love, forgiveness, the kingdom of heaven. Many prophecies that Jesus foretold are happening today. Satan cannot tell the future only God can.

The bible quote Jesus prophecies
Matthew 24:5 "For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many."
Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many."
Matthew 24:6 "And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end."
Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."
Matthew 24:8-9 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name."
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for aII
Timothy 3:1-5,7 "But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come."

All of these prophecies have come true from Jesus Christ. There for he was real and was at the very least a Prophet. But he also couldn't just be a profit because he proclaimed that he was the Son of God. So either he was the Son of God or he was Satan, but Satan cannot foretell the future nor does he preach love, forgiveness, and the Kingdom of heaven. There for the only conclusion left is Jesus Christ existed and was who he said he was.

aa5874

How can you prove it was not a false Christ that said those words?

You cannot prove anything. You have no evidence.

Jesus is a myth cannot be contradicted.

spamandham

There is no known historical principle that states mythical figures must start as real people.

But let's take an example of a mythical figure for whom we (nominally) do know to have had an historical core - Santa.

How similar is Santa to Bishop Nicholas of Myra? Even if there is a historical core of some kind to Jesus (unproven), we still don't know what that core is. It could be anything.

Unless you can say something definitive about the historical core, you can't legitimately claim it exists.

None that I'm aware of. They were converted by force/killed off after Christianity became the official religion of Rome. How on earth does that prove anything in regards to the historicity of Jesus?

So does Buddha. So does Vishnu. So does Scientology. The existence of a religion does not indicate that it's based on anything of historical substance..

Mark made up portions of those details, which were then filled in by the other gospel writers - standard stuff for period writings.

The gospels fall into a category of ancient literature known as 'hero biographies'. The purpose of such writings was not to act as a history report, but to make a case for particular doctrines - basically a form of religious propaganda.

The authors were free to invent whatever they wanted - including impossible dialogs, magic and miracles, etc.

...the same stuff that was happening 2000 years ago. Big deal. The tribulations refered to in the Gospels are the tribulations of 70 CE when the temple was destroyed.

teamonger

Okay you're right, I'll rephrase... the mythicist position is, nothing in the NT should be considered historical. As opposed the the fundie, who say everything should be. All or nothing. Reality is seldom so simple.

If spin is not a mythicist, is he some other flavor of non-historicist? I'm not up on the distinctions.

t

spamandham

You're still mischaracterizing it. The mythicist position is much simpler than your strawman. It's just, "Jesus is a myth". There can still be plenty of real history in the NT.

It's you, not the mythicists, who have declared the mythicist position to be all-or-nothing.