sotto voce

So are Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy not Christian?

Diogenes the Cynic

I'm not sure I understand your question. You said that "the story" (the Gospels) "forced the Roman Empire to adopt it as Gospel truth."

I'm pointing that it was Constantine who forced it on the Roman Empire, not the content of the story. If not for Constantine humoring his convert mother, Christianity would have probably faded into obscurity during the ultimate decline of the Roman Empire.

sotto voce

Actually, it was Theodosius, but Constantine set the process in motion. Ok. Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are the religions (most of them) that resulted from the imperial edict. So are Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy not Christian?

Diogenes the Cynic

Sure they are. So what?

sotto voce

If Obama says that all Americans are Christians, does that make them Christians?

Toto

Obama doesn't say that. Not all Americans are Christians.

I think you are trying to claim some esoteric meaning of Christian, such that only a small number of virtuous people that you like are True Christians. And I'm guessing that you want to claim that the gospel story impressed these True Christians without any influence from Constantine.

So if that is your argument, please make it explicitly and cut out the pussyfooting around. I'm not sure how it will work.

sotto voce

But if he does.

Toto

If he were to do that, you would still have to answer my question:

I think you are trying to claim some esoteric meaning of Christian, such that only a small number of virtuous people that you like are True Christians. And I'm guessing that you want to claim that the gospel story impressed these True Christians without any influence from Constantine.

So if that is your argument, please make it explicitly and cut out the pussyfooting around. I'm not sure how it will work.

Diogenes the Cynic

It's not really what Obama says, it's what they say.

If you're arguing that some people were persuaded before Constantine, well sure they were, but it wasn't because they did some kind of critical analysis and examination of the evidence, they were drawn to it by its promises.

sotto voce

It's not what they say, it's what they are. Can one make someone a Christian by saying that he or she is a Christian?

If Obama said that you are a Christian, would you agree? Presumably not. However, if a soldier came round and put a bayonet to your neck, you might well say that, erm, maybe you were mistaken, after all. But would you think you were a Christian?