Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Berthold · 06-12-2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamFearless

So I don't get it... why is there no rallying against divorce in the same way there is against homosexual marriage?

There is, in places like Ireland (republic) and Malta: Catholic countries where divorce is still illegal, but its legalization is on the move.

Jaybees · 06-12-2011, 09:22 AM

I've heard that the Koran contains even more contradictions than the bible. (Actually,k I find that hard to believe, but never having read the Koran, I'll have to take that claim on faith)

Anyhow, one solution some Moslems have arrived at is to assume that allah can change his mind, so that the last order, rule, command or whatever is the one that counts.

Applying that rule to the bible would save Xtians a lot of twisting and turning and tying themselves in knots.

Sheshbazzar · 06-12-2011, 01:30 PM

The Nazorean Counsel of Jerusalem ruled that gentiles were to be accepted subject to their obedience to the rules of the Noahide Covenant.

This was nothing at all new. Gentile Ger-Toshavim ('Strangers within the gate') had been accepted under those same rules from the first institution of The Law.
Circumcision of Gentile Ger-Toshavim was NOT required under Mosaic Law. -unless- they wished to participate in The Passover Memorial observance.
Or to become Israelites or 'Jewish' with all the obligations of obedience to ALL of The Law.

Obedience to most of the 'kosher' laws and various clothing ordinances were NOT required of the Ger Toshavim Gentiles, other than in the abstaining from blood, not eating flesh from a still living animal, and from sexual immoralities. (being already included in The Noahide laws)

The Gentiles 'without The Torah of YHWH' are a law unto themselves, making and living under their own nations rules.
To be accepted into ha'Olam ha'ba 'The World to Come' Gentiles do not even need to know all of those Laws by which Jews were commanded that they must live,
much less have any legal obligation to ever live like a Jew. Gentiles do not have to ever even read, (or even be able to read) The Law;
It is enought that they hear, believe in, and call upon His Holy Name. He has personally taken care of all of the rest.

The Doctrine of the Kingdom of Heaven from the beginning to the end, teaches TWO distinct categories having their portion in The Kingdom to Come; Israel and the descendants of Israel according to the flesh. AND all of the righteous Gentiles.
Only thing is, these Gentiles will not anymore be called 'Christians.'

Saramago · 06-14-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renassault

Again, why are you picking what one person (Al Gore) did and applying that to everyone, as if that's how they reason? And one does not need to sell all their possessions, this was done by the early community with Peter, and it's clear Paul didn't expect this from everybody. Not to mention that by saying "very few" means you do not know the definition of a monk, and that there are many of them.

Hillel was challenged by a pagan once that, if he was such a great rabbi, he'd be able to summarize and explain the whole Torah to him while he was hopping on one foot. Hillel simply (quoting Leviticus) told him: Love your neighbor as yourself; the rest is just commentary. Jesus was quite clear that: "Love God and love your neighbor" was a summary of the law... <snip>

Peter's group did it; Paul didn't expect it from everybody.

Yet Jesus advised more than once selling one's possessions & giving them to the poor (Matthew 19:21, Luke 12:33, Luke 18:22; related, Luke 14:33).

Let's see, which teaching to follow, hmm...best 2 out of 3 (or 3 out of 5) doesn't help us here, we don't want to have to give everything away.

I know, let's claim that Jesus was only talking to people of his time, and Paul's the one whose teachings apply to Christians since the time of Christ.

And maybe someone can even come up with an interpretation that would make Jesus roll over in his grave...

WilliamFearless · 06-20-2011, 07:03 PM

The only answer I ever seemed to get from Christians who had the balls enough to try and answer this question was something along the lines of the "Holy Spirit tells you" or some such rubbish. Its funny how many shied away from such a question around the time of my apostasy.

DoubtingDave · 06-21-2011, 05:47 AM

A real good question. Christians love to cherry pick what's acceptable for then.

06-12-2011, 01:30 PM	#23
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	What parts of the Bible are 'Christians' supposed to follow? The Nazorean Counsel of Jerusalem ruled that gentiles were to be accepted subject to their obedience to the rules of the Noahide Covenant. This was nothing at all new. Gentile Ger-Toshavim ('Strangers within the gate') had been accepted under those same rules from the first institution of The Law. Circumcision of Gentile Ger-Toshavim was NOT required under Mosaic Law. -unless- they wished to participate in The Passover Memorial observance. Or to become Israelites or 'Jewish' with all the obligations of obedience to ALL of The Law. Obedience to most of the 'kosher' laws and various clothing ordinances were NOT required of the Ger Toshavim Gentiles, other than in the abstaining from blood, not eating flesh from a still living animal, and from sexual immoralities. (being already included in The Noahide laws) The Gentiles 'without The Torah of YHWH' are a law unto themselves, making and living under their own nations rules. To be accepted into ha'Olam ha'ba 'The World to Come' Gentiles do not even need to know all of those Laws by which Jews were commanded that they must live, much less have any legal obligation to ever live like a Jew. Gentiles do not have to ever even read, (or even be able to read) The Law; It is enought that they hear, believe in, and call upon His Holy Name. He has personally taken care of all of the rest. The Doctrine of the Kingdom of Heaven from the beginning to the end, teaches TWO distinct categories having their portion in The Kingdom to Come; Israel and the descendants of Israel according to the flesh. AND all of the righteous Gentiles. Only thing is, these Gentiles will not anymore be called 'Christians.'

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06-12-2011, 09:22 AM	#22
Jaybees Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Hawaii Posts: 9,233	I've heard that the Koran contains even more contradictions than the bible. (Actually,k I find that hard to believe, but never having read the Koran, I'll have to take that claim on faith) Anyhow, one solution some Moslems have arrived at is to assume that allah can change his mind, so that the last order, rule, command or whatever is the one that counts. Applying that rule to the bible would save Xtians a lot of twisting and turning and tying themselves in knots.

06-20-2011, 07:03 PM	#25
WilliamFearless Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Marijuanaville, California Posts: 1,898	The only answer I ever seemed to get from Christians who had the balls enough to try and answer this question was something along the lines of the "Holy Spirit tells you" or some such rubbish. Its funny how many shied away from such a question around the time of my apostasy.

06-21-2011, 05:47 AM	#26
DoubtingDave Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Conowingo, Maryland Posts: 577	A real good question. Christians love to cherry pick what's acceptable for then.

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