Toto

Yes, you are. Basic sentence parsing. Check the red letters above.

Philo says The Greeks praise (some guys) but how much better are (these therapeutae). He does not say that the Therapeutae are Greeks.

Robert Tulip

To labour the point, Philo said the therapeuts were ""The best people from all parts." Philo said the therapeuts "exposition of sacred scripture proceeds by unfolding the meaning hidden in allegories." Philo said the therapeuts have a ritual like "a Bacchic festival" and "as they spy the sun rising, they stretch out aloft their hands to heaven."

None of these statements show that Philo said the therapeuts were primarily Jewish, even though he says they placed great value on the Jewish scriptures (among other philosophical texts). Jews did not come "from all parts" but mainly from Israel. Philo's phrase "from all parts" suggests the therapeuts included Jews, Greeks and Egyptians among their number. Jews are not renowned for "stretching out aloft their hands" to the dawn, like in Egyptian worship of the sun. This phrase from Philo suggests the therapeuts included Egyptians among their number.

The interesting thing here, in terms of the apparent identity of the therapeuts of Alexandria as proto-Christians, is that the therapeuts should be seen as the leading candidate for the community which produced the Gospel of Mark. The allegorical method which Philo describes as the core of therapeut doctrine has clear continuity with the method described by Jesus Christ, for example at Matthew 13: 10-17. (from Mark 4:11)

stephan huller

I have one thing positive to say - that's basically what Eusebius tells us.

I have one negative things to say - you should know better Robert. You've obviously studied in a university. The group is clearly Jewish. I've provided more than enough evidence to say the scales strongly, strongly weigh in favor of that proposition.

I have something more interesting to say so I am going to have to jump out of this dreary debate. You should know better Robert.

stephan huller

On the name therapeutae.

It's the same fucking word. There is a strong case to be made that the therapeutae were Simonians - or perhaps better 'Simeonites.' I haven't yet thought about all the implications of this but there is more than one example to draw from. What happened to the Simeonites? One of the biggest mysteries of the Bible. Their 'brothers' the Levites became the attendants in the desert tabernacle and later the temple (at least theoretically). The Simeonites have no portion in the land. Is that why the therapeutae live as refugees in the desert? Think about it. There had to be a precedent for the monastic dwelling of the Essenes and these Therapeutae. The Levites had a place. They were monks. But the silence about the sons of Simeon is staggering.

You see this is why this forum is so important. Here is an idea. It is certainly the more correct idea because it fits the expectation for a Jewish group. But I don't have all the answers. I need someone who has read the sources - sources I haven't considered - and is willing to bring the understanding out of the darkness. Is the example in the writings of Philo? What does Philo say about Simeon? (I haven't a clue). Perhaps it is found in Clement of Alexandria (who preserves a broader sampling of texts from Philo, texts we no longer have). Perhaps it is found in the rabbinic tradition or the traditions of the Samaritans, the gnostics or even the writings of the Church Fathers. But the answer is out there somewhere.

stephan huller

Part of the answer maybe. Philo describes Simeon and Levi as “the hearers and pupils of sound sense” (Mig. 39.224). Contrary to the Genesis account, Philo leaves the Shechemites uncircumcised, and instead attributes Simeon and Levi's ability to overcome the city to the brothers' wisdom in securing themselves and to the Shechemites' involvement “in the pleasure-loving, passion-loving, toil of the uncircumcised” (Migration 224). Philo praises the brothers for their wisdom and “totally [omits] those details that would indict Simeon and Levi." (ibid)

stephan huller

In On Flight and Finding 73 Simeon is placed first in rank of those tribes which received blessings (seemingly in contradiction to the Pentateuch):

stephan huller

Simeon is identified with the topaz in

Simeon is associated with 'hearing and learning' (thus demonstrating Philo was aware of the Hebrew meaning of his name) in On Drunkeness:

A similar statement in On the Change of Names:

Another seeming contradiction with the received Pentateuch where Philo says that Simeon is grouped with Levi in the blessing section whereas now (in our text) he is under Judah (= in a Jewish text):

I bet this relationship can be carried over to the Essenes and Therapeutae (viz. practical vs contemplative). More from On Dreams:

stephan huller

I think there is enough here to start work on identifying 'the practical' with Levi and 'the contemplative' with Simeon. The therapeutae were Simonians.

aa5874

What?? Are you not claiming the Theraputae were proto-Christians?? Your statements now appear to be contradictory.

Your proto-Christians were tortured before and after Nicaea. You have inadvertently demonstrated that the Theraputae were NOT proto-Christians.


There is no claim by Philo that the Theraputae were Christians or that they were tortured .

Please name a Theraputae who was tortured after Nicaea??

Please name the Theraputae Chief Priests who attended the Council of Nicaea??

stephan huller

Levi in the writings of Philo:

And here you must observe that it is not the woman who cleaves to the man, but on the contrary, the man who cleaves to the woman; that is to say, the mind cleaves to the external sensations. For when that which is the better, namely, the mind, is united to that which is the rose, namely, the external sensation, it is then dissolved into the nature of flesh, which is worse, and into outward sensation, which is the cause of the passions. But when that which is the inferior, namely, the outward sensation, follows the better part, that is the mind, then there will no longer be flesh, but both will become one, namely, mind. And this is a thing of such a nature that it prefers the affections to piety. (51) There is also another being called by an opposite name, Levi; he who says to his father and mother: "He saw you not, and he did not recognize his brethren, and repudiated his Children."{8}{#de 33:9.} This man leaves his father and mother; that is to say, his mind and the material of his body, in order to have as his inheritance the one God; "For the Lord himself is his Inheritance."{9}{#de 10:9.} (52) And, indeed, suffering is the inheritance of him who is fond of suffering; but the inheritance of Levi is God. Do you not see that "he bids him on the tenth day of the months bring two goats as his share, one lot for the Lord and one lot for the scape-Goat."{10}{#le 16:7.} For the sufferings inflicted on the scape goat are in real truth the lot of him who is fond of suffering. [Allegorical Interpretation II]

For Moses confesses that the Levites who being taken in exchange for the firstborn, were appointed ministers of him who alone is worthy to be ministered unto, were the ransom of all the rest of the Israelites. "For I," says God, "behold, I have chosen the Levites out of the midst of the children of Israel, instead of every firstborn that openeth the womb from among the children of Israel; they shall be their ransom and the Levites shall belong to me: for every first-born is mine; from that day in which I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, I dedicated to myself all the first-born of Israel."{50}{#le 3:12.} (119) Reason which fled to God and became his suppliant, is what is here called the Levite; God having taken this from the most central and dominant part of the soul, that is to say, having taken it to himself and appropriated it as his own share, thought it worthy of the honour due to the first-born. So that from these it is plain that Reuben is the first-born of Jacob, but Levi the first born of Israel, the one having the honours of seniority according to time, but the other according to dignity and power. (120) For Jacob being the symbol of labour and improvement, is also the beginning of goodness of disposition, which is signified in Reuben: but the fountain of contemplation of the only wise being, according to which the name of Israel is given, is the principle of being inclined to minister to him; and of such ministry the Levite is the symbol. As therefore Jacob is found to be the inheritor of the birth-right of Esau, eagerness in wickedness having been defeated by virtuous labour, so also Levi, as one who devotes himself to perfect virtue, will carry off the honours of seniority from Reuben, the man of a good disposition. But the most undeniable proof of perfection is for a man to be a fugitive to God, having abandoned all concern for the things of creation. [On the Birth of Abel]

As, therefore, good men are the strongest part of cities, with a view to their duration, so also in that state of each individual of us, which consists of soul and body, the reasoning powers which are attached to prudence and knowledge, are the firmest part of its foundation; which the legislator, using metaphorical language, calls the ransom and the first-born, on account of those reasons which I have already mentioned. (127) In this way he also says, "The cities of the Levites are ransomed for ever, because the minister of God enjoys eternal freedom, according to the continuous revolutions of the ever-moving soul," and he admits incessant healing applications; for when he calls them ransomed, not once, but for ever, as he says, he means to convey such a meaning as this, that they are always in a state of revolution, and always in a state of freedom, the state of revolution being implanted in them because of their natural mortality, but their freedom coming to them because of their ministration to God.

XXXVIII. (128) But it is worth while to consider, in no passing manner, why he granted the cities of the Levites to fugitives, thinking it right that even these, who appear entirely impious, should dwell with the most holy of men. Now these fugitives are they who have committed, unintentionally, homicide. First of all, therefore, we must repeat what is consistent with what has been already said, that the good man is the ransom of the worthless one, so that they who have sinned will naturally come to those who have been hallowed, for the sake of being purified; and, in the second place, we must consider that the Levites admit the fugitives because they themselves are potentially fugitives; (129) for as they are driven away from their country, so these others also have left their children, their parents, their brethren, their nearest and dearest things, in order that they may receive an immortal inheritance instead of a mortal one. But they differ, because the flight of the one is involuntary, being caused by an unintentional action, but the flight of the others is voluntary, from a love of what is most excellent; and because the one have the Levites for a refuge; but the Levites have the Lord of all for their refuge, in order that those who are imperfect may have the sacred scriptures for their law; but that the others may have God for theirs, by whom they are hallowed. (130) Moreover, those who have committed unintentional homicide, have been allotted the same cities as the Levites to dwell in, because they also were thought worthy of a privilege because of a holy slaughter. When therefore the soul being changed, came to honour the Egyptian God, the body, as fine gold, then all the sacred writings rushing forth of their own accord with defensive weapons, namely demonstrations according to knowledge, putting forward as their leader and general the chief priest, and prophet, and friend of God, Moses, proclaimed an unceasing war in the cause of piety, and would not hear of peace till they had put down all the doctrines of those who opposed them, so that they naturally came to inhabit the same dwellings, inasmuch as they had done similar actions, though not the same.

XXXIX. (131) There is also another opinion bruited about, as something of a secret, which it is right to lay up in the ears of the elders, not divulging it to the younger men; for of all the most excellent powers which exist in God, there is one equal to the others in honour, that is the legislative one (for he himself is a lawgiver and the fountain of all laws, and all particular lawgivers are subordinate to him), and this legislative power is divided in a twofold division, the one having reference to the rewarding of those who do well, and the other to the punishment of those who have sinned; (132) accordingly the Levite is the minister of the former division, for he performs all the ministrations which have a reference to perfect holiness, according to which the human race is raised up to and brought to the notice of God, either by whole burnt offerings, or else by saving sacrifices, or else by repentance for one's sins. But of the other and punishing division of the legislative power, those who have committed unintentional homicide are the ministers. (133) And Moses bears witness to this saying, "He was not willing, but God gave him into his Hands,"{51}{#ex 21:13.} so that his hands are here taken as instruments; but he who energizes by their means in an invisible manner, must be the other being, the invisible. Let therefore the two servants dwell together, being the ministers of the two species of the legislative power; the Levite being the minister of the division which has reference to the reward of them that do well, and the unintentional homicide of the division which is conversant about punishment. (134) "But in the day," says God, "on which I smote the first-born in the land of Egypt, I consecrated to myself all the first-born of Israel."{52}{#ex 13:15.} And he says this not to lead us to suppose that at the time when Egypt was stricken with this mighty blow by the destruction of all its first-born, the first-born of Israel all became holy, but because both in former times, and now, and hereafter, and for ever, this naturally happens in the case of the soul, that when the most dominant parts of blind passion are destroyed, then the elder and most honourable offspring of God, who sees everything with a piercing sight, becomes holy; (135) for the departure of wickedness brings about the entrance of virtue, as, on the other hand, when what is good is driven away, then what was bad, having been lying in ambush, comes in to supply the void. Jacob then had scarcely at all gone out, {53}{genesis 27:1.} when Esau entered, not the mind which receives everything, being stamped with the impression of wickedness instead of the figures of virtue, if that is possible; but he would not have been able to effect this, for he will be supplanted and overthrown by the wise man before he knows it, the wise man being prompt to repel the impending injury before it can affect him. [ibid]

But Cain here speaks arrogantly, "Am I my brother's keeper?" For we might altogether say he was sure hereafter to lead a miserable life, if nature made you the guardian and keeper of so good a man. Do you not see that the lawgiver entrusts the keeping and preservation of the holy things not to any chance person, but to the Levites, who were the most holy persons in their opinions? for whom the earth and the air and the water were considered an unworthy inheritance, but the heaven and the whole world were looked upon as their due. And the Creator alone is worthy of these things, to whom they have fled for refuge, becoming his sincere suppliants and servants, showing their love for their master in their continued service, and in the unhesitating observance of all the commands which are laid upon them, and in the preservation of the things entrusted to them.

XIX. (63) And it has not fallen to the lot of all the suppliants to become guardians of the holy things, but to those only who have arrived at the number fifty, which proclaims remission of offences and perfect liberty and a return to their ancient possessions. "For this," says the Scripture, "is the law concerning the Levites: from twenty-five years old and upwards, they shall go in to wait upon the service of the tabernacle of the congregation: and from the age of fifty years they shall cease waiting upon the service thereof, and shall serve no more; but shall minister with their brethren in the tabernacle of the congregation, and they shall keep what is to be kept, and shall do no Service."{24}{#nu 8:24.} (64) Therefore, the Scripture charges him who has half perfection (for the number fifty is perfect, and the number twenty-five is the half of fifty), to work and to do what is holy, approving his ministration by his works. And the beginning, as an old writer has said, is half of the whole. But the perfect man it does not enjoin to labour any longer, but only to preserve what he has acquired by labour and diligence. For may I never become a practiser of what I ought not to be a preserve; (65) subsequently practice therefore is mediocrity not perfection, for it takes place not in perfect souls, but in such as are seeking after perfection. But it is the perfect duty of guardianship to deliver to memory the well-practised contemplations of holy things, the excellent deposit of knowledge to a faithful guardian, who is the only one who disregards the ingenious and manifold nets of forgetfulness; so that the Scripture, with great propriety and felicity, calls him who is mindful of what he has learnt, the guardian of it. (66) And such an one before he practised was a pupil, having another to teach him; but when he became competent himself to guard what he had learnt, he then received the power and rank of a teacher, having appointed his brother, his own uttered discourse, to the ministration of teaching. For it is said that, "His brother shall Minister;"{25}{in quoting this passage above, I used the translation as given in the Bible, they "shall minister with their brethren in the tabernacle;" but the Greek of the text was the same in that passage as it is here.} so that the mind of the good man is the guardian and steward of the doctrines of virtue. But his brother, that is to say, uttered discourse, shall minister instead of him, going through all the doctrines and speculations of wisdom to those who are desirous of instruction. (67) On which account Moses, also, in his praises of Levi, having previously said many admirable things, adds subsequently, "He has guarded thy oracles and kept thy Covenant." [The Worse Attacking the Better]

And this will also be proved by the oracle which was given to the all-wise Moses, in which these words are contained: "Behold, is there not Aaron thy brother, the Levite? I know that he will speak for thee; and behold he will be coming forth to meet thee, and he will rejoice in himself when he seeth Thee."{42}{#ex 4:14.} For here the Creator says, that he knows that uttered speech is a burden to the mind, because it speaks; for he represents it, that is to say, articulate sound, as the organ, as it were, of all this concrete being of ours. [ibid]

Again, it is not every speech which should come forward to meet the conceptions; nor is it every kind of conception that it should come to meet; but only the perfect Aaron who should come forward to meet the conceptions of the most perfect Moses. Since else why, when God had said, "Behold, is not Aaron thy brother?" did he add, "the Levite," if it were not for the sake of teaching that it belongs to the Levite and priest, and to virtuous speech alone, to give information respecting the conceptions of the mind, which are shoots of the perfect soul. (133) For never may the speech of a wicked man be interpreter of divine doctrines, for such an one would deform their beauty by his own pollutions; and, on the other hand, may what is intemperate and disgraceful never be related by the utterance of a virtuous man, but may sacred and holy conversations always deliver the relation of holy things. (134) In some of the best governed cities of the world they say that such a custom as this prevails. When any man who has not lived well attempts to deliver his opinion, either in the council or in the assembly of the people, he is not permitted to do so by his own mouth, but is compelled by the magistrates to deliver his opinion to some virtuous and honourable man to explain in his behalf; and then he, when he has heard what he wishes said, rises up and unfolds the meaning of the sewn up mouth of his instructor, becoming his extempore pupil; and he displays the imaginations of another, scarcely considering the original concern for them even in the rank of a hearer or spectator. So some people do not choose to receive even benefits from unworthy persons, but look upon the injury accruing from the shame of taking their advice as greater than the advantage which can be derived from it. (135) This lesson the most holy Moses appears to teach; for such is the object of the statement that Aaron the Levite is coming forward to meet his brother Moses, and that when he sees him he rejoices in himself; and the statement that he rejoices in himself shows also, besides the doctrine which has already been mentioned, another more connected with politics, since the lawgiver is here exhibiting that genuine joy which is most especially akin to the human race; (136) for to speak strictly, the feeling of joy does not belong to abundance of money, or of possessions, or to brilliancy of renown, nor, in short, to any one of those external circumstances which are lifeless and unstable, and which contain the seeds of their decay in themselves: nor yet does it belong to personal strength and vigour, and to the other advantages of the body, which are common to even the most worthless men, and which have often brought inevitable destruction on those who possessed them. (137) Since then it is only in the virtues of the soul that genuine and unadulterated joy is found, and since every wise man rejoices, he rejoices in himself, and not in his surrounding circumstances; for the things that are in himself are the virtues of the mind on which it is worthy for a man to provide himself; but the circumstances which surround him are either a good condition of body or an abundance of external wealth, which are not proper objects for a man to pride himself on. [ibid]

Moses, therefore, has such intimate connection with God, that, relying upon this in a very great degree, he is in the habit of using more fervent and energetic expressions and doctrines than are calculated for the ears of us inferior persons; for he not only thinks it fit to speak of God as an inheritor, but even, which is a more startling thing to the comprehension, he calls him the inheritance of others; (63) for to the entire tribe which came to him as a fugitive and a suppliant, he did not think fit to allot only a portion of land, as he did to the other eleven tribes, but he chose that they should receive an especial honour, namely, the priesthood, a possession not of earth, but of heaven. "For thou shalt not be," says God, as Moses represents, "a portion to the tribe of Levi, nor any inheritance among the children of Israel, because the Lord himself is their Inheritance."{15}{#de 10:9.} And again he speaks in the person of God, in his holy oracles, in this manner: "I am thy portion and Inheritance."{16}{#nu 18:20.} (64) For, in real truth, the mind which is perfectly purified, and which knows all the things of creation, knows and recognizes one only God, the Uncreate, whom it approaches, and by whom it is received. For to whom is it permitted to say, "He alone is my God," except to the man who is attached to none of the objects which are inferior to him? And this is the custom of the Levites; for the name of Levi, being interpreted, means, "He is to me," because different things are honoured by different people, but by him only that which is highest and most excellent, the Cause of all things. [Concerning Noah's Work as a Planter]

For it is said, "Each of you slay his brother, and each of you slay his neighbour, and each of you slay his nearest relations. And the sons of Levi did as Moses had spoken; and there fell of the people in that day about three thousand Men."{15}{#ex 32:27.} And those who had slain such a vast multitude he praises, saying, "Ye have this day, each of you, filled your hands to the Lord in your son, or your brother, so that blessing shall be given to you."

XVI. (68) What, then, are we to say, but that such men are caught by the common customs of men, having, as their accuser, their mother, who lives according to the laws of the state, and acts like a demagogue, namely, custom: but that the others preserve the laws of nature, having, for their ally, their father, namely, right reason; (69) for it is not the case, as some persons think, that the priests slay men, rational animals, compounded of soul and body, but they only eradicate from their minds all those things which are akin to and dear to the flesh, thinking it seemly for those who have become ministers of the only wise God, to alienate themselves form all the things of creation, and to look upon all such things as enemies and thoroughly hostile. (70) On this account it is, that we shall slay a brother, not a man, but the body, which is brother to the soul; that is to say, we shall separate that which is devoted to the passions and mortal, from that which is devoted to virtue and divine. And, again, we shall slay a neighbour, not a man, but a company and a band; for such a company is, at the same time, akin to, and hostile to, the soul, laying baits and spreading snares for it, in order that being inundated by the objects of the outward senses, which overflow it, it may never emerge and look up to heaven, so as to embrace the beautiful and God-like natures. And we shall also slay those nearest to us: but that which is nearest to the mind is uttered speech, inserting false opinions among reasonable and natural plausibilities and probabilities, to the destruction of that best of all possessions, truth. [On Drunkenness]

Do you not see that the scripture says that a lofty oak was planted in Sichem? meaning under this figurative expression to represent the labour of instruction which never gives in, and never bends through weariness, but is solid, firm, and invincible, which the man who wishes to be perfect must of necessity exert, in order that the tribunal of the soul, by name Dinah, for the interpretation of the name Dinah is "judgment" may not be seized by the exertions of that man who, being a plotter against prudence, is labouring in an opposite direction. (224) For he who bears the same name as this place, namely Sichem, the son of Hamor, that is, of irrational nature; for the name Hamor means "an ass;" giving himself up to folly and being bred up with shamelessness and audacity, infamous man that he was, attempted to pollute and to defile the judicial faculties of the mind; if the pupils and friends of wisdom, Sichem and Levi, had not speedily come up, having made the defences of their house safe, and destroyed those who were still involved in the labour devoted to pleasure and to the indulgence of the passions and uncircumcised. For though there was a sacred scripture that, "There should be no harlot among the daughters of the seer, Israel,"{104}{#ge 34:1.} these men, having ravished a virgin soul, hoped to escape notice; (225) for there is never a scarcity of avengers against those who violate treaties; but even though some persons fancy there may be, they will only fancy it, and will in the reality of the fact be proved to entertain a false opinion. For justice hates the wicked, and is implacable, and a relentless avenger of all unrighteous actions, overthrowing the ranks of those who defile virtue, and when they are overthrown, then again the soul, which before appeared to be defiled, changes and returns to its virgin state. I say, which appeared to be defiled, because, in fact, it never was defiled; for of involuntary accidents that which affects the patient is not in reality his suffering, just as what is done by a person who does wrong unintentionally, the wrong is not really his action. [On the Migration of Abraham]