neo_mp5

"I fail to see how this is avoiding the question. If you want to be pedantic, the appeal is that they joy watching the sport. Their reaction to the appeal is that they feel enjoyment. Sometimes when I watch sports, I am alone. I am still able to enjoy the sport in that situation, even when I'm not looking around making sure that I'm agreeing with everyone else that I actually like something that we're all privately hating. Watching sports appeals to me. Since I obvoiusly seem to be mistaken in this belief, please let me know why I find watching sports to be such a bore, so I can turn off the TV and pick up that old Neitzche book."

you've avoided the question again. what is the appeal to watching sports? WHY do people find it enjoyable?

"Is there anything popular that is actually popular? Can you conceive of the idea that lots of people do these things because lots of people want to do these things? There are some people who are sheep and pretend to like things in order to fit in with the crowd. The key thing to realize, though, is that the crowd is there in the first place because the thing is likeable. Just because you don't find it likeable doesn't mean that everyone who says they do is lying to themselves and everyone else. For example, I hate country music (except for the occasional Shaina Twain video with the mute button on ), but I am able to realize that there are others who actually get enjoyment out of listening to it and aren't just trying to act like they think illiterate hicks should act so they're friends will continue to like them. Many, many people in the world aren't actually that insecure and are able to enjoy things for their own sake, rather than to impress others."

you'd be suprised. most people value what everybody else says over their own opinions. they're afraid to stand out. i happen to know a person who is like that more than others

"Dude, I know that this is an infidels board, but that kind of blasphemy is unacceptable. Hockey is, and always has been, our national sport. Just because some bureaucrat tried to raise lacrosse's profile by giving it an official label doesn't mean jack shit. It's a second string sport and always has been. It is beyond me how someone who lives in Alberta cannot understand the way of life that hockey is and thinks that lacrosse in some way compares to that. "

thank you for proving my point again. the only sport i come close to liking is basketball. the only true canadian sport

"OK, so when you said that there aren't many big, obvious problems for people to deal with so there's nothing to distract them from watching sports, your point was watching sports makes them too busy to see these problems."

too busy too look for them. they have to be pointed out of obvious.

"You're right, I completely missed that and when you said that people don't have to deal with big enough problems to distract them from watching sports, I thought you meant that the problems weren't big enough to distract them from watching sports."

not big enough to them, because they're not obvious. but most of the problems we have are ones nobody ever knows about. if a hockey fan's wife get's cancer, he'll care. but if there is huge corruption in the government and millions of taxpayer dollars are wasted, he won't even know it happened.

Godot

What's even funnier is that you accuse others of avoiding questions when you've put on a stellar display of the same yourself.

I'll answer your question though. At least as it applies to me. Remember that thread I linked you to waaaay back on page 1? I'll be a sport and post a couple of relevant passages to illistrate my position.
Good enough for you?

But according to your OP, sports are immoral. By extension, enjoying sports would also be immoral. Therefore, by your own argument you are an immoral person. And you have the gall to criticize us?
Hypocrite.

Holy non-sequitur Batman! What exactly does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

Tom Sawyer

Because you have highly trained people displaying impressive feats of athletic skill. The talent and ability that goes into making great plays are exciting to watch. In fact, the talent and ability that goes into making what are fairly average plays in professional leagues are exciting to watch. People are able to recognize and appreciate the training and skill that goes into making these athletic displays and therefore enjoy seeing the athletes make them. Watching highly trained professional athletes display their skills gets the adreneline pumping and releases endorphins which induce neuro-electrical signals that our brains interpret as pleasure. That is why we find it enjoyable.

Also, rooting for their city's team gives people something to cheer for and follow. It allows them to go out with their friends and bond through an experience that they all find enjoyable (for the reasons in the preceeding paragraph). Note that the fact that they can enjoy doing this together doesn't mean that they're pretending to like it so that they can fit in with the crowd, but because the enjoyable experience, like most enjoyable experiences, is heightened when shared with friends.

You seem to have a low opinion of most people, that's very sad. Granted, there are many people out there who have a low sense of self-esteem and care more about the opinions of others than their own opinions. However, there are also people out there who have a very high sense of self-esteem and other people who really don't give a shit what other people think. According to your theory, nobody in either of these groups would enjoy watching sports, since the only reason to do so is to fit in with the crowd. So, do you think that there is anybody with a high sense of self-esteem or anybody who's an asshole that doesn't care about other people's opinions who watch sports? If so, why do they do it?

There's one more question that I think goes to the heart of the issue, so please try and give a detailed answer to it:

If people only pretend to like sports to fit in with the crowd, why is the crowd there in the first place?

If everybody is only trying to fit in with the crowd, why did the crowd form for them to fit into? Why on a typical Saturday night in Toronto are there a million more people watching the Leafs' game than going to an art gallery? Since there are crowds to fit into in both cases, why do all these people with low self-esteem tend to try and fit in with the sports crowd as opposed to the art crowd? If they're just trying to fit in with whoever happens to be around them and there's nothing inherently enjoyable about either activity, wouldn't you expect a more even distribution between genres?

You immoral bastard, how can you sit there and like basketball while huge corruption in the government is wasting millions of taxpayer dollars. The two are directly linked, you know. :banghead:

Also, what point was it that I proved? I missed that, so please explain more clearly.

You know, there are people who both like hockey and are aware of government corruption and try to do something about it. There are other people who don't care for sports and are totally unconcerned about government corruption. There's not actually a link between the two things. Hockey games and news stories about government corruption don't always play on different channels at the same time, so it is possible to be aware of both. Taking some time out to be distracted from the problems of everyday life doesn't mean that those problems are then completely ignored at all other times.

ZouPrime

I guess it's different for everyone. But why should you care? The point is that THEY do enjoy it, and they are ready to pay big time to enjoy it. You can try to rationalize it as hard as you can, but ultimately it doesn't change the obvious fact that they DO. The same way that people are ready to pay to read a good book.

Now, maybe the professional athlete also enjoy what he's doing, but it has nothing to do with the subject. I'm sure some don't. I work in a office and I also enjoy what I do. Should I feel remorse because of this?

Also, for some strange reason, you seem to think that salary should match contribution to society. Maybe in an ideal world, but not in our capitalist society. Salary are high in professional sport sbecause it is so hard to "make it" and the demand for great athlete is so high. It's like everything else.

catalyst

You may not consider it, but note that I said mostly.

You will probably conveniently ignore this as well.


And I would not get paid to review if I did not read. Hence, I am getting paid. Rather like athletes getting paid to perform a service. For example, a fighter getting a percentage of the gate, because people are there to see him fight. Hence, he is being paid to entertain.

neo_mp5

"What's even funnier is that you accuse others of avoiding questions when you've put on a stellar display of the same yourself.

I'll answer your question though. At least as it applies to me. Remember that thread I linked you to waaaay back on page 1? I'll be a sport and post a couple of relevant passages to illistrate my position.
"As You Like It", Act 2 Scene 7
Such is sport. At the commencement of the game, enter Dramatis Personae. For the subsequent three hours, you will experience a cavalcade of emotions, running the gamut from the peaks of ecstasy to the depths of despair. At the conclusion of the game, you applaud the participants (usually with a resounding standing ovation), bid them adieu, and return to your life as it has always been.
[/exuent Dramatis Personae][/quote] Good enough for you?"

bull: the use of rhetoric to obscure a lack of content

"But according to your OP, sports are immoral. By extension, enjoying sports would also be immoral. Therefore, by your own argument you are an immoral person. And you have the gall to criticize us?
Hypocrite."

i don't see the logic in that. how am i an immoral person?

Theli

Is this still a moral issue, or has it become an issue of taste?

The Other Michael

The remaining posts have been split off and stored and the thread closed due to thread deterioration.

Michael
MF&P Moderator (spiral)