davidstarlingm

My apologies; I simply haven't had a chance to look further into it. My laptop battery fried last week, so I have been unable to get online this weekend apart from my iPhone. Trust me, it's rather tricky.

Logical

Thanks for the recommendation. I have downloaded it on my Kindle app.

Logical

Thanks for restating my argument in a better way. I think the only week part of it is (A). We have evidence of some failed Apocalyptic prophets that ended up founding major sects within Christianity that still exist today. Jehovah Witnesses is one of them.

Logical

aa5874,

It is possible that the first three gospels had an apocalyptic line of thinking, but the fourth one did not, since it became evident Jesus wasn't coming back soon, and that that reflected the evolving Orthodoxy that had to lose its apocalyptic elements.

But why didn't the Christian churches remove the first gospels from the canon then? Many gospels that included teachings that contradicted the "orthodox" theology or included weak ideas were excluded from the Canon. Why did the early church keep the embarrassing verses of evidently failed prophecies?

I mean if I were still a Christian today, having come across these verses, I would find them very troubling indeed. I am just baffled that anyone is a fundamentalist Christian and am trying to understand how Christianity survived and thrived given those verses.

I once asked a fundamentalist (having just discussed Evolution), "The Bible, taken literally, contradicts science. What would the Bible have to say, for you to conclude that it's wrong?"

If I was a devoted Christian now, these verses are it. That's one easily disputed claim the Bible makes, that is so evidently wrong, that it disqualifies the entire Christian fundamentalist religion in my opinion. I mean you can claim that Evolutionary evidence is all a delusion, or that the speed of light slowed down over time, and that Noah magically fit all the species in one boat. But Jesus said he would come back in his generation, and he didn't! That's it. He was wrong. Move on.

And YET, that is not the case. I guess religion is much more resistive to reason than I have ever imagined.

OR I am missing something huge about understanding these verses.

ApostateAbe

The book was recommended to me on this forum years ago when I became aware that Jesus of the synoptic gospels seemingly believed that the apocalypse was imminent, much like a doomsday cult leader. It wasn't a theory that I was familiar with at the time--before that, I tentatively accepted the thinking of Earl Doherty, that Jesus never existed, though Doherty didn't have much in the way of strong argument on his website (I thought maybe the arguments would seem stronger if I only investigated his theory more). When I discovered those passages with the apocalyptic deadlines, it was like a Eureka! moment--it is like the New Testament spells it out for you and hits your head with it. I started a thread on this forum, and someone said, "That theory isn't new." And he or she referred me to that same book.

ApostateAbe

By the way, nobody will hold it against you if you let aa5874 have the last word. Permanently. It is impossible to win an argument against aa5874.

Toto

Correction. It is impossible to end an argument against aa5874. That's why a lot of people never start.

Toto

Your original thread seems to be here and a follow up thread on the same subject is here.

It doesn't look like we have made a lot of progress in the past 5 years. And I don't see any evidence that you investigated Earl Doherty's theories more.

ApostateAbe

There was a thread I started that was earlier than that, where someone recommended to me Ehrman's book. I am not sure the record of that thread still exists.

aa5874

That is exactly what the evidence from antiquity suggests. The original Jesus story was FABRICATED by an APOCALYPTIC author who used words of the Prophets and the Fall of the Temple for his story.

It was the Apocalyptic author himself who BELIEVED that Hebrew Scripture predicted the End of the Generation.

There was NO Canon of FOUR Gospels, Acts of the Apostles and Epistles (Pauline and Non-Pauline) until the 4th century.

Irenaeus, The first writer to mention the Four Gospels, Acts of the Apostles and the PaULINE writings gave BOGUS information regarding authorship, dating and even contents of those writings

But, the so-called FAILED prophecies were NOT really Failures INITIALLY since those were the very prophecies that have CREATED the Jesus Christ cult. It would appear that People of antiquity BELIEVED that there was going to be AN APOCALYPSE and STARTED to REPENT.

Fundamentalists and some Christians exists just as HJer exists. They do NOT have any credible sources of antiquity for what they say about Jesus and BELIEVE what ever they say.