Biff the unclean

Nope, you are wrong. That has nothing to do with being successful.
They brought the Torah to all nations and everywhere they brought it they were hated and kicked out...or worse. The Egypt escape was a myth, it never happened. They weren't chosen by any God.

You are the one who insists on a different criteria for success so that you can claim it where there is none.

Biff the unclean

Then what happened to the claim you just made?
What did Abraham do differently than people living today who you would consider crazy?

Chaupoline

Abraham communicated with God.

Biff the unclean

That can’t be, because you said,

“I am just stating that reality exists beyond what we perceive and that we exist apart from our perceptions.�
and
“…we can never say that what we perceive are concrete facts, because there is always the possibility that what we think we saw may be wrong.�

So, according to you, we cannot say that Abraham communicated with God, only that he thought he did. And he thought God told him to kill his sons Ishmael and Isaac.
That sort of thing still happens, only a few months back the news was filled with the story of a woman who murdered both of her little boys because she communicated with God and God assigned her the same task He had Abraham.

The courts agreed with you that what she thought she “saw was definitely wrong� and declared that she is insane.

Then by the standards you yourself have set up, Abraham was a psychopath.

spin

Yes, Chaupoline, how would you know that Abraham communicated with God?? If you have such difficulties with ontology, your epistemology is going to be even worse hit.

Chaupoline

Yeah, we can't know if Abraham communicated with God, and we can't not know either. We can only speculate on the subject. I think that Abraham spoke with God.

mirage

It was done alphabetically.

Biff the unclean

Doesn't seem that you know much of anything. Do you speculate Andrea Yates had the same conversation with God as Abraham had? If not, why not.
Do you think Ms Yates is insane or should God now be called the God of Andrea?
I'm speculating that your first sentence is just poorly phrased and you don't mean to contradict yourselfself

Chaupoline

I don't think that Andrea Yates was speaking with God, because I don't think that God talks to anyone anymore. I am not going to claim that I know this as a fact, because I am just speculating on this. I think that Abraham spoke with God in Ur though. Again, this is just a speculation. One way that we can verify about Andrea Yates, is that if God intercedes on her behalf then she was telling the truth. In the meantime, lock her up, I think she is crazy.

Chili

As far as that goes, he talks to me all the time, but it doesn't matter if God spoke to Abraham or not. What counts is that we (?) believe he did.